BitcoinAddict

AE

Valued Contributor

6 months being unemployed, thoughts on my approach to this in job interviews?

So as of September, I have been unemployed for 6 months. I did get a couple of job offers but the red flags were too much on the companies for me to take it.

My predicament and some psychology.

On the outside looking in, I am hypothetically the desperate one since I have been unemployed for 6 months and need an AE role. On the other hand, why should a company take a shot on a desperate seller when there are plenty of fine sellers they can have who are not desperate? Those who do not need the job.

My approach, frame, and mindset.

I am leaning strongly, and have been, on the mindset of "Life's great here for me but I just had a curiosity for this role and want to get back into sales". I even made a slide for my career aspirations and how a role will fit into it.

I've said how I have started to help a couple of friends with a business of theirs and made money off of it but I do feel like there is more to sales that I want.

My talk track is something along the lines of this:

"While I will survive and be happy with life as it is right now, I do feel like there is a chip on my shoulder for sales. I want to make consecutive President's Clubs and close a deal for over a million dollars. It's one of those things that I feel like if I do not do, I still leave something on the table which is why I am interviewing for this role and how it lines up with my future aspirations."

The frame being:

"Hey, I am not desperate here for a job, I will survive just fine without it. I just have these lofty goals before I can really move on from sales. I rather not live with regret while I still have time."

Sort of like there is an itch I need to scratch.

Because the alternative is...

"OMG save me I am desperate for a job man!"

Which I think is low value and will make great sales orgs avoid you.

☁️ Software Tech

13

32 comments

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TennisandSales

Politicker

11

Head Of Sales

so i agree that the "omg save me" mentality is not a good one.
The only down side to your current approach could be coming off that you are not committed to being in sales long term.

I read your story and one thing i think about is "will this person leave next year if a good side gig pops up? Is sales what he really wants to do, or is it just a way to make money until another opportunity pops up"

What I would want to hear is:
- I am actively looking to get back into sales since I know thats what I really want to do, BUT I know exactly what I am looking for so Ive turned down other offers when I saw red flags. Ive been very fortunate to be in a place where I can still pay my bills due to side work I have done but I know the career goals I have and the path for me achieve my financial goals are in sales"
- I have a good sense that this role will be a great fit based on X,Y,Z and would love to know if you think I would be a good fit.

Sunbunny31

Politicker

2

Sr Sales Executive 🐰

I really like this approach.

Gasty

Notable Contributor

2

War Room Community Manager

This is totally on point!

Kosta_Konfucius

Politicker

2

ERP Sales

Love it!

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

1

AE

I love this answer but a few things. Towards the end, it still seems like I am giving my power away and being a bit desperate.
My mindset is that I do have these goals in my next sales role but I have these specific goals I need to hit in terms of deal size closed and making PClub a few times. I am vigilant and shrewd on making sure the next company I join is a good fit for that.
As for my long-term business goals, I feel like they will be hard to get to or almost impossible if I do not hit these sales goals in my next role. I do pitch that I eventually want to be a Chris Orlob type of guy or Kyle Assay who can eventually be on his own or at least a big enough voice in the space.
Again, this is tricky and requires a lot of thought but I love your take. It is just that I feel like if I press too much for the role, it will give all power to the hiring manager.

Sunbunny31

Politicker

2

Sr Sales Executive 🐰

You've got to thread that needle to not sound desperate, but sound interested and eager to get started. Giving up a little power isn't the end of the world.

TennisandSales

Politicker

0

Head Of Sales

How would the hiring manager have the power? you can always say no to what ever offer they make so you really have the power.

I like the idea of letting them know of your long term goals, but I would caution you about letting it be known that you want to be an influencer in the space. idk many leaders that are actually looking for that in a candidate. if it happens organically then it can help the company but most will look at that as a down side not a plus unfortunately. I dont think its worth brining up in the interview process.

Filth

Politicker

1

Live Filthy or Die Clean

I do declare a enthusiastic /golfclap for @TennisandSales. Good show old chap.

Space_Ghost20

Executive

5

Account Executive

I've tried to play the "I'm fine as is, but this role/company/etc. intrigued me" game, but I'm not sure they've ever bought it. I am technically doing M&A consulting as a side hustle with a kind of well known company, so I always default to that. But honestly I rarely ever get booked for a consult, at best it's 3-4 a year, and maybe $500 tops. Anyone knowledgeable in any way about the industry could probably see through that bs pretty quickly. And even if they didn't, I'm sure a lot of them would think a "real" salesman isn't going to be content doing consulting work for months on end; they're going to want back in the game, and a good one will land something pretty quickly.

All this to say, I'm in a pretty similar spot right now (except it's been 11 months for me) and unfortunately I don't know the best way to talk about my situation without sounding desperate or delusional.

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

1

AE

Heres to us bouncing back bro. I might be in your shoes soon at this rate but I am confident that as soon as I get more interviews, this time I am going to hit it out of the ballpark.

Gasty

Notable Contributor

5

War Room Community Manager

I’ll give my 2 cents on it.
What I feel is that, I often get interviewees saying - I have goals, I want to hit numbers, I want the Pclub etc etc. it’s all based on assumption. If a person shows me the work that they did before and what all they did while being in between jobs to become deserving for a chance - Now this is something that I can rely on. These are facts.

The hint of desperation would also not do. I think you can try a different approach as well;

How about having a frame like:

I came across this job post, really aligns with my goals, and ambition. The target is to become a VP Sales someday and I think it can be a great stepping stone towards that destination.

I have done xyz in the past, I focused on up skilling while helping out a few of my friends with their businesses(freelancing). However that’s not working out great due to xyz reason, looking for something more stable where I can continue proving myself, since I am a competitive person - believing in healthy competition of course! “Haha”

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

2

AE

But see the thing is I want to say it is working out alright so I do not come off as a dog needing to be rescued. However, I am going to post an updated frame.

Justatitle

Big Shot

2

Account Executive

I sent you a DM

Justatitle

Big Shot

2

Account Executive

Here's the problem with "I'm fine but my curiosity peaked here" you are setting it up in the hiring managers mind as this might be ok to me but I don't want it that bad. the alternative isn't I'm desperate and need a job, there are many alternatives. Your best one might in fact be, hey I was unexpectedly let go from my role, I am actively looking for the next role, here's what I bring and I've been out of work for ~6 months so the time is now for my next role.

jefe

Arsonist

5

🍁

This is my take as well - positioned as it is, it's a false dichotomy. There's so much in between, and that's where @BitcoinAddict needs to sit.

Combine this with what @TennisandSales has said, and stay away from the narrative that this post has.

I agree that desperation isn't the way to go, but either is this play at being coy.

Sunbunny31

Politicker

2

Sr Sales Executive 🐰

I agree that this is risky.

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

1

AE

I get that but the only thing is, I want to come off as that guy who is happy and high value and loving life right now and just happens to bring that good energy and value to whatever company he joins. It is a tough line to play with.
So I guess the frame can be:
"Well I am looking for a new sales role but I have to be selective because I have these goals I want to hit and not all companies will get me there, is yours it? We will see"
It is just that big picture of not letting the companies have all the power in the hiring process and get the sense that "oh we can fiddle him along he needs a job".

Justatitle

Big Shot

2

Account Executive

Again totally understand this and it's the same process as making a sale, you don't want to come off desperate but you also don't want to play it as F U I don't need this deal. I'd like to work with you because I have to sell to keep my job but it needs to be on the right terms.

MRK47

Personal Narrative

2

Head of Growth

I would steer clear from stating a desire 'to close a specific deal value size' as an aspirational goal as you're now limiting yourself to a more condensed target employer audience with only larger / enterprise deal sizes....I'd also not refer to presidents club as again, possibly limits you to only potential employers who offer this...or it suggests you've never achieved it before which could be interpreted negatively. I'd refer to being surprisingly let go (surprised due to positive individual and team performance at the time) but thankfully due to that strong performance, it provided you with sufficient runway to be able to take time and have a more strategic / considered approach when determining your next landing spot, specifically roles where you would add significant value and have an immediate impact (be prepared to explain that impact)....you've also been fortunate to have been approached by a couple of businesses to consult in the short term, helping to enhance their sales process (or whatever you think sounds best)......so still active & very much involved in the X market/segment....

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

0

AE

So I am targeting a lot of big companies rather than just start-ups. A few points though.
1. I say that I want to close a big deal but realize I am not at that point in my career yet, however, I would look to grow with a company to get to that point. A lot of big companies are already there or they eventually want to upmarket.
2. My past companies did not have PClub but a lot of big and established ones do.

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

1

AE

So I have been thinking about my frame and telling my story and here is what I decided to go with as an updated draft. Story starts below this line.
Thoughts? @Sunbunny31 @TennisandSales @Gasty @MRK47

-----------------------------------------------
The last few months after leaving my past role have been great. I got to travel the world, help friends with their businesses, discover the talents I really have, and truly reflect on what I want. As I thought more about it, even though I can financially care for the basics, I could not help but want to come back to sales.

You see, there is this itch I have to scratch and this chip on my shoulder. If I do not do this, I feel as if I would have left my sales career with a lot on the table and I don't like doing that. I am sure you can relate to that feeling yourself.

So here are my goals and I am looking for a company to help me accomplish that as I add value to their team in return because we are both truly helping each other. As you can see, there is only a shortlist of companies that can make this happen.

Maybe your team is on that shortlist or maybe I need to look elsewhere, this conversation will help us determine that.

Sunbunny31

Politicker

1

Sr Sales Executive 🐰

Honestly, I think you're overthinking it. I can tell where you are trying to go, but you're boxing yourself in as well.
How did you get the interviews you got this past time through? What was your approach that time? I'd like to hear how you got there, and see if/what needs tweaking on those messages. After all, those are the CLOSEST you've gotten to hiring. So I'd be personally taking another look at those processes and working on sticking the landing this time, rather than starting from scratch.

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

0

AE

It was through a similar approach tbh. I went in with respect for myself and stood my ground. I did not let managers talk me down or make me feel bad for my predicament. I realized that the team is lucky to have me. What I was looking to do was refine it.

It is like my gut tells me I am on the right path with this but it just needs tweaking, hence why I posted this. I am not playing beggar to these companies.

MRK47

Personal Narrative

0

Head of Growth

I can only give feedback based on my experience as a hiring manager (though I’m not necessarily the standard nor a proven expert), but if you communicated in this tone within the hiring process, I'm more likely to view it negatively as there is such a fine line between what’s perceived as confidence vs arrogance…and frankly, I don’t want to deal with arrogance on the team as that can be translated as an unwillingness to learn / be coached / admit mistakes and so on. Not saying you should sacrifice your values and self-worth but like with any sales process, understand the audience and how to make their role easier.
Like it or not, we’re all competing against countless other equally qualified candidates….similar stories, similar needs and similar aspirations. We need to stand out but for all the right reasons…….yes hiring managers want to quickly see what value you can bring and your confidence in delivering but also, that you’re going to be a somewhat easy hire / easy to work with….you have their attention for only a minute….try to lead them to easily make the decision and move you on to next stage by giving them what they want to hear without the risk of any questions being raised about potential fit / coachable etc....they only need 1 tiny issue as a reason for passing on you. Move on from what’s in it for you…..focus entirely on what’s in it for them…this is stage 1 and just to get you in the door…the next stages are for talking about mutual fit / mutual needs / aspirations etc.

poweredbycaffeine

WR Lieutenant

1

☕️

Here is the problem: you won’t survive, at least not in the way you want.

VPs and CROs don’t want despair, but they also don’t want the “I’m financially independent and don’t need your business” mentality either.

0

Retired Sales Professional

I need to ask, what skill set and experience do you have that you can leverage against this company to speak in such a way that it demand they pay attention to what you're saying or you will walk away?

You say, ("As you can see, there is only a shortlist of companies that can make this happen.")

Then you proceed say to this company that, ("Maybe your team is on that shortlist or maybe I need to look elsewhere, this conversation will help us determine that.") I really hope you have a hefty resume that can back this up because from where I'm sitting you literally telling them that they can't afford to pass up on this opportunity.

You say that, ("You see, there is this itch I have to scratch and this chip on my shoulder.") I don't know about you but that's a red flag in my book.

AB with all do respect unless you have VP or Presidential experience you come across as someone who is trying to prove more to himself that he doesn't need this job, but if you look a bit closer you really do need this job because without it you really can't scratch that itch or the chip, it's written all over this string.

Right now this story sound like someone who is more arrogant then assertive.

AB words can build someone up or bring them down. Right now this doesn't to me sounds and this is my opinion, take or leave it, it's your choice as one that is not going to get you the result you are looking for. You get more bees with honey then you do with vinegar. But I really do wish you the best in your endeavors. Keep us posted.

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

0

AE

Again, the alternative is that I act desperate and get on my knees for a job which is just not happening. I get that the wording can use improvement, hence why I even asked this question, but the frame is not changing. I believe that I deserve to work for a company and a team that will treat me with decency, give me an opportunity to hit quota, and offer a fair chance rather than the typical "yeah 3 months onboard and you haven't hit quota we are axing you".
TBH, I get what you are saying but even if I have to lose a job, I rather be a bit arrogant and come from a strong frame than be a beggar and show desperation for a role.

FeelItInMyPlums

Valued Contributor

0

Sales Account Executive

This may be part of why it's been 6 months. It's not one or the other. Its not arrogant vs passive. It's not on your knees vs I dont need this job. Just like sales its the gray area in between.
You need to create a backstory that someone believes/buys into. If you tell them "I'll be fine without this job, but would prefer this job" then in their head its "ok, go be fine without it then."
You need to express true interest in why you want to work for a particular (hiring manager, product line, org type, etc).
And yes, sometimes you need to eat shit and take a couple bad jobs to find the right one. If it's been 6 months, jump on the next train that makes sense and see where it takes ya.

BitcoinAddict

Opinionated

0

AE

Not at all. Part of why its been 6 months is because I spent 3 months not actively looking and for the other 3, hey, I was picky about who I moved forward with. Companies play games as some of my recent submissions will show, such as moving to the final round and then the VP completely disregards the agenda and blindsides you with dumb questions.

thisdoesntexist

Executive

0

Sales Consultant

@BitcoinAddict I appreciate you raising this thread because I have been freelancing since January and am “fine” without a new job, but also not meeting all my financial goals. I also have a fair degree of employment trauma and am hesitant to just jump into bed with the first thing that looks okay. So I hear you and feel you. I also have been asked the tough questions in several interviews lately which basically questions both my past employment history as well as my consulting practice. It puts me on edge because as much as I would like to have a job and the “security” it supposedly represents, I am also not super willing to set aside my other streams of income. So I have been truthful about how I make ends meet, AND then have to deal with hearing how it makes them unsure about bringing me on. It’s a catch 22 for sure.
I just want to add to this thread that we need to actively de-stigmatize the “employment gap” and remind hiring managers that there are lots of legitimate reasons people don’t have continuous back to back work histories. No need for any postuing at all, or desperation, if you just lean into the truth of wanting a new role that fits and allows you to meet your financial goals. I hope those on the other side of the table will relate to that approach. I think “matter of fact” would be the best approach. But what would I know! I am still unemployed! 😂 keep us posted and good luck 🤞🏼

tominvest

0

investment analyst

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YoureMuted

Executive

0

Regional Sales Director

As a hiring manager, anyone who tells me they can take this job or leave it likely isn’t going to impress me. I need to know you’re going to be committed and that you want the role.

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