TheNegotiator

VP of Sales

Am I going to get sued?

WR fam, the hiring market is getting SPICY. Let’s talk non-competes.

Recently had an executive recruiter reach out to me about an opp. based on my experience on LinkedIn and great potential fit etc etc etc. The usual spiel.

Anyway, as always the client was kept secret until we spoke, where it came to light that they are a direct competitor to my old organization. So, being (A) a professional and (B) unwilling to get sued I brought it up.

The recruiter was slightly dismayed but agreed to present my profile and we said we can figure out the logistics later.

Anyway, I went back and reviewed the IP Protection and Non-compete documentation that I signed when I started at my old company, only to discover that while the letter was addressed to me at the top (name, phone number, address etc)... the very first clause, concerning the terms of the agreement were actually addressed to someone else. Clearly they use a template, and forgot to change the name.

So, my question: is this non-compete even valid? The way it reads is, I was basically sent a letter concerning the terms and restrictions placed upon someone else. I read the letter, signed and returned it, as requested. But none of this is legally applicable to me, correct?

This is a copy and paste of that first clause:

Dear [MY NAME],

This agreement confirms the terms and conditions associated with sales & account management services (“The Services”) to be provided by [THE WRONG NAME] (“The Employee”), to [THE COMPANY NAME] (“The Employer”).

The ONLY other concern I have is that at the bottom where I DocuSigned the agreement, my name is listed correctly next to “The Employee” and I’m signing against the bolded legal-language talking about “I agree to uphold the articles of allegiance and may you take my left arm and first-born child if I should breach such legalese as displayed above”

Thoughts dearest salvages?

Should I sign the offer letter?

Attached poll

You’re going to get sued What a trash legal team. You gucci Do I look like a Lawyer to you?

*Voting in this poll no longer yields commission.

🤝 Interviewing/Offer

40

94 comments

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SlinginSoftware

Politicker

20

Account Executive

From what I've been told (and please understand that I have always been an IC so I'm not one of the employees they really worry about being poached), non-competes are very hard to enforce. That being said, I think a lot depends on how much of a dickhead your old company wants to be and the state in which you live.

jefe

Arsonist

1

🍁

Was looking for exactly this..

Almost always unenforceable. I was actually talking about this like 2 weeks ago to the president of our company. When it comes to high level project managers with development expertise there can be some validity for the protection of IP.

But sales? YOU GOOD

ColdCall

Valued Contributor

1

Account Executive

Came here to say this. Normally a way to scare employees to staying/ moving out of industry. But be careful what you sign!

Kinonez

Celebrated Contributor

12

War Room Enthusiast

To be super honest I'm not sure, I would run this by a lawyer to get better imput! Hope things work out!

Woody

Politicker

8

Business Development Executive

I was going to say break into the server room where the agreements are stored and set it on fire. But this is probably better advice.

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

6

VP of Sales

This is actually a great idea. Unfortunately they use google cloud storage so I’d have to set fire to all the google servers. And that poses logistical concerns

AlphaCharlie

Arsonist

5

Account executive

I'd Lawyer up! Always wanted to say that.

jefe

Arsonist

7

🍁

This is solid advice.

poweredbycaffeine

WR Lieutenant

7

☕️

Explain this to the company if you are considered for the role. If they are cool with it, and hire you, then they should be willing to go to bat for you when that letter comes in. I had the same thing happen to me, albeit due to spite by the previous firm's CEO and not actual malice on my part, and my new employer sent them an even stronger letter back that basically read "GFY".

LordOfWar

Tycoon

2

Blow it up

My old CEO was a lawyer and loved to do the threatening letter thing even if he knew he had no grounds and/or would never pursue it in court. It works more often than people like to admit, big words scare little companies.

SADNES5

Politicker

6

down voters are marketing spies

You signed in good faith.

That being said, non competes interfere with your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness... So not a lot to lean on.

Take the offer.

Justatitle

Big Shot

5

Account Executive

Depending on the state you live in non competes are almost useless. New York and California you have no issue. Texas there could be a legal fuss but. In all honesty non competes are almost useless

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

2

VP of Sales

Shoulda mentioned I’m Canadian

Justatitle

Big Shot

1

Account Executive

Well then, no clue o. How it works up there lol

LordOfWar

Tycoon

2

Blow it up

In Canada, the general understanding is courts don't want to enforce it, but it does vary by location and specific case.

Its hard to enforce in Ontario as it requires fair compensation for lost income: https://achkarlaw.com/non-compete-clause-in-ontario/

Also, check this out referring to the clause being reasonable and in the public interest: https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/pages/global-ontario-restrictive-covenants.aspx

TL:DR = You can likely work for a competitor to earn income but not steal accounts/customers or sell company secrets. Even those restrictions only last for a set amount of time. Overly broad clauses actually work in your favour and are more likely to be struck down vs. detailed and restricted clauses.

Note: I'm not a lawyer. The hiring company may be willing to have their lawyer look at your existing clause and give feedback.

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

2

VP of Sales

this is what I needed. Tyvm @LordOfWar

LordOfWar

Tycoon

1

Blow it up

Godspeed friend.

1nbatopshotfan

Politicker

2

Sales

Generally you’ll be fine, is my experience. You’ll probably get a cease and desist or whatever but it’s normal.

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

2

VP of Sales

@funcoupons did you enjoy reading through?

funcoupons

WR Officer

1

👑

You know it. A surprising amount of lolz and drama for an unassuming topic.

Tldr; fear no non compete.

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

1

VP of Sales

Tbh, I never saw your city. I stayed on the western outskirts and then google took me due south.

4,857km door to door. Also, I’m freezing my balls off.

goose

Politicker

1

Sales Executive

Talk to your potential employer. They may be able to help you.

Laws are different depending on where you live / work. Check with a lawyer if you are concerned.

Anyone who says non-competes are hard to enforce has not been sued by a previous employer.

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

1

VP of Sales

Have you been sued? Know someone who has? How did that play out?

goose

Politicker

1

Sales Executive

This is always like an urban legend. Friend of a friend type of stuff. I've never been sued.

I have, however, presented my non-compete / non-solicit to a future employer. Some have hired me; some have passed. It's always good to begin candidly in my opinion. Make sure you have bases covered.

BlueJays2591

Politicker

1

Federal Business Dev Director

Non-competes are difficult to enforce, but I have seen someone sued for it. They were fired on the spot with their new company and had to pay a certain amount to their previous employer. But it was also a very stupid move of going back to their former clients and trying to scalp business. As long as you sell to different clients you should be good.

LordOfWar

Tycoon

0

Blow it up

In that situation they violated a non-compete, non-solicitation and probably a confidentiality agreement.

Step on 1/3 and you're likely gonna be ok. Hit 3/3 and you're asking for trouble.

CaneWolf

Politicker

1

Call me what you want, just sign the damn contract

I believe you’re an IC. You should be fine. This shit only gets enforced way up the chain

CuriousFox

WR Officer

2

🦊

Or if they are being a petty Betty. I've seen it happen. 🤷‍♀️

CaneWolf

Politicker

1

Call me what you want, just sign the damn contract

Fair, scale/industry matters. Most of my employers were too big to care and my current industries, it’s pretty standard

softwarebro

Politicker

1

Sales Director

In my experience most non-competes are worthless. Most salespersons don't have enough deep knowledge about the solution they sell to be held to the definition of "intellectual property". If you are concerned, have the new company's legal team review the non-compete. Even if you are golden you will probably still receive a letter in the mail. I have one of these threatening letters framed on my desk.

Blackwargreymon

Politicker

1

MDR

I’ve moved off of “business books” the past year. And have move into Autobiographies and history.

Clashingsoulsspell

Politicker

1

ISR

From what I've been told (and please understand that I have always been an IC so I'm not one of the employees they really worry about being poached), non-competes are very hard to enforce. That being said, I think a lot depends on how much of a dickhead your old company wants to be and the state in which you live.

Diablo

Politicker

0

Sr. AE

I am not sure but doesn't look to be abnormal. Did you check with any of the lawyers who might give you the right solution as that their profession?

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

1

VP of Sales

I have not yet contacted the blood-suckers. I decided the WR was the place where I want to get sound legal advice from. Lifestyle choice.

thebuckhunter

Politicker

0

AE

You gotta let us know how this plays out

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

1

VP of Sales

Will do. The recruiter has been fairly responsive, playing middle man between me and the client. She is optimistic, but they always are.

Do.it.for.the.checks

Politicker

0

Account Executive

Be clear to the employer, but non-compete is non enforceable in most right to work States.

Non-solicitation is different.

Do.it.for.the.checks

Politicker

1

Account Executive

I.e. they can't say you can't work for them, but can say you can't take IP or customers

JMSwiggidy

Politicker

0

Enterprise Account Executive

I was recently sued for my non compete, I went from competitor A to B, same industry, shared a majority client list, etc. The non-compete was only valid because apparently I was taking a sizable book of business over and has good relationships. Keep in mind The product drove decision, not my relationship. My lawyer told me it was still hard to enforce, but basically I’d have to stay out of those companies for the term of my non compete to be safe. Both companies and myself agreed and that was that. However, was told unless you’re directly bringing business from one company to another they are hard to enforce and can be considered “grey area.” Also the state matters - New York during covid was not about to let someone go unemployed, so that was a plus for me. The example he provided me was hairdressers, no one goes to the barbershop for the company, it’s the relationship with your hair dresser or barber that brings you back. If that person leaves, it’s likely they take a very high percentage of their book of business with them to the new business. Hairdressers struggle with non competed a lot more than sales people according to him…Another was office supplies, price points tend to be similar and people don’t tend to care where their paper and pens come from - but it’s the relationship with the rep. Mind you, I’m not a lawyer and this is just my experience so don’t take this as legal advice, but hopefully it provides some context into the shitshow of non competes.

LordOfWar

Tycoon

0

Blow it up

Your office supplies reference made me think of Michael Scott Paper Company.

WomenWantMeFishFearMe

Politicker

0

AM

Non competes may or may not be illegal depending on your state

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

0

VP of Sales

#Canada

WomenWantMeFishFearMe

Politicker

0

AM

I’m unfamiliar. Do you mean America Jr?

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

0

VP of Sales

America’s Hat* . But jokes aside, the laws around free enterprise are quite different. So I really should’ve specified when I posted 😂

salesandstrategy

Opinionated

0

Senior Account Executive

IANAL, would got to counsel and figure out your best path forward.

MoonDog349

Valued Contributor

0

Sales Manager

Non-competes rarely hold up in court because they are so difficult to prove violations of the agreement. Many western states don’t even recognize them and will toss any non-compete cases out the window (Colorado for example). My dad was a lawyer for 35 years and when I went through something very similar a few years ago he acted as my council. From my experience you’re safe even if the incorrect non-compete is attached to you. Just don’t steal any business from your current job when you go to the new company.

dwightyouignorantsale

Politicker

0

Account Executive

my company has had a few salespeople move to competitor companies of ours over the years. we all signed non-competes when we started, but they have yet to enforce it. it seems that the only people they really care to enforce that on are dev/engineering people who know the ins and outs of our product and take it elsewhere. BUT that’s just my org. I’d definitely ask a lawyers opinion to be safe!

dcarb

Good Citizen

0

Account Manager

I agree with some others here that have said non-competes are notoriously hard to enforce. It also depends on what state you live in. If you Google it you will find a list of states and how friendly or not they are to enforcing non-complete agreements.

My old company would have their attorney send a nastygram to the new company threatening to sue them and often times it would scare the new employer into letting the new hire go. I’ve also seen companies who would say “ fuck em! Let them sue us if they want to waste their money on legal fees”. The old company has to prove damages in order to sue. They can’t just keep you from working. You just can’t “harm them financially” and they have to prove that you did NOT will or might harm them. It doesn’t work that way. If you take your biggest client from the old company to the new company then they might have legal grounds to come after you. I wouldn’t worry about it though. If your new employer is good with it then you should be too. Good luck!!

SheCloser

Valued Contributor

0

Staring down at you from the top of the stack rankings

Get a lawyer to look it over

MediocreSalesGuy

Valued Contributor

0

AE (Account Executive)

It may depend on what state you are in. I'm in Illinois for example, and non-competes are nearly impossible to enforce. I'm no lawyer (but watch a lot of Law and Order), but I would think that their stupid move would make it even more difficult to enforce. Now go make some money!

Riskitforthebiscuit

Good Citizen

0

Head of Revenue

Non competes are essentially impossible to enforce unless you are a C level AND going to a DIRECT competitor. Most of the time, sales execs aren’t considered as part of having completely confidential information either. Versus someone who has written the source code, knows how the product works…etc.

ronimal

Opinionated

0

Enterprise AE/Manager

According to the r/sales subreddit you can totally ignore non-competes. They’re completely unenforceable. You could always consult a lawyer to confirm, or you can just ask at r/legaladvice.

pirate

Big Shot

0

🦜☠️ Account Executive

Non compete in sales? Max they can put you on garden leave during your resignation period

MR.StretchISR

Politicker

0

ISR

From what I've been told (and please understand that I have always been an IC so I'm not one of the employees they really worry about being poached), non-competes are very hard to enforce. That being said, I think a lot depends on how much of a dickhead your old company wants to be and the state in which you live.

Mr.Floaty

Politicker

0

BDR

Good to great is awesome !

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