At what point should you complain about leads?

Okay okay we’ve all heard it or said it, “these leads are trash”. We’ve also heard that great sales people will close deals regardless of leads.


When I was getting started in sales, there was a large group of college graduates in our office getting started on the phones. There were different “verticals” that were assigned randomly (construction, health care, finance, etc) and the leads assigned would reflect that.


I had a buddy of mine get the worst vertical you can imagine....farming. We were slinging payroll at the time and my buddy was great at building rapport and had done very well at his previous sales gig.


My buddy would make 100+ calls a day and was met with 80% bad numbers, 10% voicemail, 5% they had died or went out of business and the rest was actual farmers. Over the course of 6 months I watched my buddy struggle so badly trying to sell payroll to farmers that he was put into a PIP and eventually let go. The worst part is they wouldn’t let him change his vertical.


So the question is, at what point do you do you make a serious case for better leads when what you’re working with is absolute trash?

📞 Cold Calling
☁️ Software Tech
📚 Resource
19
Chep
WR Officer
13
Bitcoin Adoption Specialist
At that point it sounds like he is better off finding another company
RandyMoss
Politicker
2
Account Executive
My thoughts exactly! It sounds like that company has some deeper issues if that is how they treat a rookie sales rep that is willing to make 100 dials a day.
Salespreuner
Big Shot
1
Regional Sales Director
Perfect and sharp this is. Yes +1
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
I hate to see a company set someone up for failure, but you’re totally right 
Ace
Arsonist
0
CEO
Exactly, the sooner you tell the better or just find another company
ARRyouReadyKids
Politicker
3
Enterprise Account Executive
honestly never been at a company where I get too many leads, so when is it NOT the best time to complain lmao. 
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
Hahaha yea they gave us thousands, and I swear there were sales people who literally sucked at sales that got the golden ticket of leads and would close deals like candy. Sometimes I though it was rigged 😤
RandyMoss
Politicker
3
Account Executive
It's a simple answer, but you have to stand up for yourself and be your own best advocate. Make sure you have numbers and specific data that you can reference to prove that you are giving it your all from a metric standpoint, and if your company or manager is half decent they will sit down with you and try to figure out what isn't working and look for some potential ways to improve things. Good salespeople are hard to find, and even harder to retain, because if you don't treat them decently and reward their efforts they will leave you for someone else that will.


Just my two cents - it sounds like your buddy dodged a bullet. PIP and getting let go sucks, but it sounds like something at that company was broken...hopefully he found something better!
PIPboy69
Catalyst
2
CSM
Appreciate the answer sir, I agree. It was the Wild Wild West on that sales floor and the managers did more blow than Pablos entourage. 
RandyMoss
Politicker
1
Account Executive
We all have to start somewhere! Hopefully you've escaped with nothing more than a battle scar or two and some great war stories! This is a good one even if it's not about you...
paddy
WR Officer
2
Director of Business Development
Start complaining now. Demand better from marketing always
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
I had to become boys with the marketing team just to differentiate myself from the 3000+ reps bugging them. 

crazy sometimes you have to build rapport within your own freakin company haha
AlecBaldwinsHairline
Valued Contributor
2
Head of Sales Development
Always - it keeps marketing honest :)
SADNES5
Politicker
1
down voters are marketing spies
Only complain if they are marketing sourced.
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
It almost seemed like these leads were taken straight from 1997 yellow pages! lol
CaneWolf
Politicker
1
Call me what you want, just sign the damn contract
Well before the point he hit. Also, whenever marketing tries to say they're generating a lot of leads, then you complain.
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
The marketing team that distributed the leads didn’t know what the f*ck they were doing half the time. What’s even worse the VP could get you better leads if you sucked up to her. 
TheSolicitorGeneral
Politicker
1
Small Market AE
Everyone wants to complain about leads, I do all the time lol

You need to effectively communicate why your leads are shitty, along with why you aren't getting enough qualified leads. 

Here's how to argue your case from better leads:
1.) Get an accurate percentage of workable vs non workable leads
2.) Look at any market research on connect rate percentages (i.e. what percentage of leads pick up at any point in a call cadence)
3.)Look at market research figures for meetings scheduled per prospect connect. (i.e. you schedule one meeting per every 10 connections)
4.) Do the math on how many leads you need to hit target

Honestly, your buddy's marketing team should have already figured this out. Just sounds like a shitty marketing team.
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
Was absolute trash, but your points are great. Sometimes you’re new to sales and don’t really have someone to guide you, the points you listed sounds like something a veteran would know to do and could help some green sales folks down the line. Thank you sir!
The_Sales_Badger
Notorious Answer
1
Account Executive
I see your point of view. However, it sounds to me like your buddy pissed off the wrong person.  

Am I to understand that you work there?  If so, what has your experience been like?  How successful have you been throughout your tenure?  Except for your friend's story, do you get the same vibe from upper management?

The reason I ask is that salespeople tend to lean on excuses rather than accept personal accountability.  His perspective sounds 100% unfair - because it's coming from him.  Be careful. Since he went down, he will inadvertently love to see you go down too—that way, he is validated.  

Also, colleagues tend only to tell the stories that make themselves look "legendary."   Who knows, he may have gotten drunk around the wrong person or accidentally pissed on your boss's shoes in the bathroom.  Maybe it wasn't accidental.  

Finally, since farming is vertical, is anyone succeeded in that role? Were they terminated?  Good luck to your buddy, but fo' real playa, be a friend but don't let his failure ruin your opportunity. ...
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
I left that job a year after, it was a total shit show and didn’t see myself growing there. 

Many people struggled like him and the consensus was management sucked. They definitely targeted people with no experience right out of college and very few people stayed longer than a year. 

it was a stepping stone for me as I moved on to better opportunities and better mentors. My buddy is no longer in sales but he’s happy at least. 

 Appreciate your thorough answer! 
The_Sales_Badger
Notorious Answer
1
Account Executive
That makes more sense then.  Glad you're still in the game though.
SpamFolder
Contributor
1
Business Development Representative
You need to make a serious case for better leads well before you are on a PIP. But start by giving the other side the benefit of the doubt. Try to work on improving conversion and recording metrics. Then use industry benchmarks to make your case as to why marketing is feeding you garbage. 
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
Do you wanna be an SE there? Haha I wish they could have seen that before they PIPed him
Lumbergh
Politicker
1
Sr Account Exec
What are these "leads" that you speak of
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
We had more luck social selling on linkedin!
CCP
Opinionated
1
VP, Business Development
I've always found leads to be weak (in general) and banking on them is misguide. Build something from scratch and its yours forever. 
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
Yea that was the goal, to get referrals from customers but that is no small feat. 
Salespreuner
Big Shot
1
Regional Sales Director
When he or she is interested but not willing to pay and better settles in less dominant solution which is cheaper
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
Yea you really had to complain and that's what killed my buddy in the end. There are some great answers on here for making a case for better leads, at the time we were all just following talk tracks and trying to get our SE's to help close the deals. Unfortunately my buddys SE was let go for an HR complaint, his whole team got the short end of the stick.
Salespreuner
Big Shot
0
Regional Sales Director
That ain't cool!
thetrustedadvisor
Executive
1
Sr. Customer Account Executive
I don't think you should ever complain about leads. Complaining is useless. You should come up with a solution and a strategy, and start doing as much of it as you can right away without anyone's permission. Then you should pitch the idea to management and suggest new ways to drive demand and make sales. In an ideal world, they'd appreciate your initiative, and everyone would work together to build a sales machine that drove leads, opportunities, customer success, and expansion opportunities.

That being said, we do not live in an ideal world. Many companies are totally useless. My first sales job was very similar, 100+ cold calls a day, rarely ever connecting with anyone, only to give them a boiler-room style pitch when I finally did connect. I made a few sales, but it was mostly luck, and lots of good people got let go because they weren't lucky enough.

Your best option in those situations is usually to leave. If you're a hard-working person with talent and a good attitude, you should want to be in an organization where you can actually succeed. An organization with a top-tier product that customers use and prospects want. A company with decent brand recognition, a marketing engine, and a real sales organization that actually works. These companies DO exist. It will never be perfect, but once you find your way into one it becomes like a force multiplier. Instead of having your efforts diminished by a total lack of infrastructure, your efforts are multiplied by the fact that you work for a great company with a great product and a great team.

So my advice is not to complain, but rather try to change things from the inside, while you keep your eyes open for a move to an organization that actually has its shit together. 
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
I totally agree and your first sales job was very similar to ours. I reached out to some of my other friends that still work there and they are so desperate for workers they are offering a 5K sign on bonus. Like what.
NYsalesguy
Old School Bravo
1
Sales Development Manager
Nothing wrong with informing leadership leads are trash. But obviously, present in a different way - present numbers to back it up (conversion rates etc.) and come prepared with ideas to grow lead volume/quality. 
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
When you're 23 years old and still live with your parents, have sales experience but never had to really grind...getting shitty leads can be a career ender if you don't have the discipline. 
NYsalesguy
Old School Bravo
1
Sales Development Manager
Sure - I’d actually suggest people start with outbound in their sales career to quickly understand if it’s for them. 
primesales
Valued Contributor
0
Outbound Sales
@PIPboy69 Can you expand on the line "If you don't have the discipline"

I'm personally in early career outbound sales, but a terrible market where there's no need, and is just luck if someone buys. Sort of like finding a needle in a haystack. What's your opinion on how discipline can help here?
MandaMustWin
Good Citizen
1
Major Accounts District Manager
Before the PIP. But you need the activity to back it up.
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
Totally agree!
TheJoker
Fire Starter
1
VP of Sales
Don't use a hunter when you need a farmer.
TheJoker
Fire Starter
1
VP of Sales
I'd take my data and numbers to my manager and my managers manager.  Explain the stats on the bad leads and get into “do farmers need what we are selling?” prove with data, that's a no. if they don't get it I'd start my job search and leave.  

I'd have taken my talent somewhere else long before getting to a PIP stage.
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
Yea trying to fight for a place at a company that you know is failing you is a waste of time, the only thing that sucks is trying to find another job while working the old one. 
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
Hahahaha 
Allisce
Tycoon
1
Account Executive
currently facing 3.5 weeks with no MDR leads, want to die
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
You need to raise some hell, a lot of great suggestions for better leads on here. Let’s keep it going! 
Wolf
Opinionated
1
Commercial Account Executive
I complained recently around leads at my company because I found that it was taking too much time for me to triage them for the value that these so called "leads" actually provided me. You have to stand up for yourself cause time is currency.
PIPboy69
Catalyst
1
CSM
I couldn’t agree more
PedraPeanut
Old School Bravo
1
Director of Inside Sales
Show the bad data. If 80% of your leads have no phone number or a wrong phone number, the leads are just bad. 
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
I could have found better leads on farmermingle.com
Rigeyyy
Opinionated
1
Account Executive
Ya if the leads are that bad go somewhere else my friend! I doubt they are going to do anything to fix it!
PIPboy69
Catalyst
0
CSM
They didn’t do anything to help I’ll tell you that 
goose
Politicker
0
Sales Executive
Never complain.
GDO
Politicker
0
BDM
I just always complain about either the amount or quality of the leads. Sometimes both. 

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