SaaSam

Account Executive

Getting fired vs quitting

Ex coworker is also quitting. He put in his two weeks and was told "your last day will be tomorrow". They aren't planning on paying out the two weeks.

I told him to tell HR something along the lines of "well that sounds more like a termination than a resignation."

My question to ya'll is, how would you handle this?

He is in California.

🧠 Advice

😳 Ethics

35 comments

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hh456

Celebrated Contributor

sales

Always get fired for the bennies. Never resign.

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

VP of Sales

Speaking as an involuntary socialist Canadian, I find that California law tends to be most similar to Canada.
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Like Grizz said, always get fired if you can, but if you resign I don’t believe you’re owed a thing… notice period is the ONLY labour-law that actually goes in the favour of the employer. You’re leaving them, with minimal warning, so they have a small head start at replacing you. If they feel like they don’t need your 2 weeks, they have the right to walk you off site, and you take that risk when you resign.
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Am I crazy for thinking that’s totally fair?

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

That's how it is in Wyoming. Right to work state meaning you can be fired for pretty much anything at any time.

My thoughts are that if I put in a two weeks notice I'm basically saying I will quit in 2 weeks. If I'm forced to leave before that time, that sounds like a termination to me.

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

VP of Sales

Nah, I disagree. Nobody asked you to put in notice. YOU decided to leave. How would it be fair that they employer is chained to an employee for 2 additional weeks of payroll, with no right to fire them. That employee would have the right to dick around and completely check out (like a huge number of people do) during the notice period, and the employer has no recourse.
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Termination at any random time is termination. Walked off site during notice is justifiable to me.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying. I don't think companies should be forced to keep on what is essentially dead weight. My only issue with it is where the state-specific law comes in. Personally, I'm not a fan of how California chooses to run things but, if a company wants to do business there, they are knowingly taking on the risks of their employment laws.

MCP

Valued Contributor

Sales Director

What’s happened here is the business is accepting the resignation effective immediately. That’s a very common thing in sales because it reduces the risk to the business. There’s really very little knowledge transfer, and the reality is, for sales, that equates to 2 additional weeks of PTO. Not to mention keeping someone on who could do damage to the customer base.
End of line.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

Got it, I didn't know that was a thing. So it is still a resignation then

ChrisSellsHisSoul

Fire Starter

Owner

Counterpoint: Quitting is really fucking fun.

I quit a job with a one-sentence email and it was one of the most satisfying experiences of my life.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

I do very much enjoy quitting a shitty job. Never get asked to do an exit interview before though. I always ask about it because I would love the opportunity to tell them why I'm leaving and see their response but the reality is that shitty companies know why employees leave and they try to avoid any situation that forces them to acknowledge it.

Diablo

Politicker

Sr. AE

This is so bad. Ideally they should be paying for two weeks, what's the condition on the employment letter?

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

VP of Sales

They don’t owe him if he resigns.. also why is it bad? If he’s quitting he has another opp lined up, and if he doesn’t that’s on him, he’s a big boy who made a choice. You take the risk when you bail.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

I don't disagree. Personally, I'm from a right-to-work state. Meaning you can be fired pretty much anytime and nobody is entitled to anything. I don't have a problem with it as that sounds fair. You get paid for the work you have done, period.

However, I don't think that's how California law works, in which case I believe they're violating it.

The way I see it, they should abide by the law in the state that they chose to do business.

TheNegotiator

Arsonist

VP of Sales

I agree with that. IF California law protects against that. Idk that it does or doesn’t, I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t. The employer could very easily be within their rights, if not you should definitely go get what you’re owed.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

My point exactly.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

Honestly I'm not sure. I'm also not really sure how California's employment laws work. In Wyoming he would be screwed. Luckily when I put in my notice they didn't know that so I bluffed and it paid off. They're giving him a harder time though.

He was told he would be paid for his unused PTO and time worked but nothing more.

The way I see it, if I tell you I'm quitting in 2 weeks but you force me to stop working the next day you're actually firing me. Is he legally owed anything?

UrAssIsSaaS

Arsonist

SaaS Eater

Thats pretty standard practice in CA. You are resigning. The company at that point owes you nothing. idk if your friend is going to a competitor but if so, they are for sure out the next day.

LilSaaSX

Executive

Enterprise AE

I’m assuming the resignation was in writing? California law is to pay out. I’m not in California anymore but I grew up there and was also a manager parts of my career and when an employee puts in 2 weeks they need to be paid for that time. There are loopholes though depending on the contract/offer letter they signed it could be “at will” and they can tell people to kick rocks right away. My assumption is this person had no tenure there so they don’t give a shit they’re leaving. Still sucks but depending on the way it went down potentially to take legal action and everyone is sue happy in Cali

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

He has something like 9 months at that shit hole. They also recently dropped a bomb on the sales staff and changed everyone from salaried to hourly employees literally without any kind of advanced notice

LilSaaSX

Executive

Enterprise AE

Wow salary to hourly. Sounds like a shit box.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

Yeah, I got out about 2 weeks ago and I'm so glad. Since I've left multiple current employees have messaged me and talked about how they are looking to dip as well. The churn rate at that place is so bad I didn't even bother learning the names of most hires. At 9 months I was considered one of the longer tenured AEs

LordOfWar

Tycoon

Blow it up

There might be a case of constructive dismissal there. Any significant negative changes to roles/responsibilities/pay that are not tied to performance can constitute constructive dismissal (forcing someone to quit vs firing them).

Again, a free legal clinic may be able to help.

CaneWolf

Politicker

Call me what you want, just sign the damn contract

He can file for unemployment. That's also illegal in most cases.

MCP

Valued Contributor

Sales Director

Depending on the state, he may not be able to. Generally, you can’t claim benefits when you resign, which he did. The only way this works is if you can prove that you resigned due to something illegal.
End of line.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

My point is that it's not a resignation if they end his employment before the two weeks is up. When you put in your notice, what you are basically saying is that you are going to resign on a specific date. Ending your employment before that is essentially a termination.

MCP

Valued Contributor

Sales Director

This depends on the state and employment agreement. 2 weeks notice is a courtesy. The business can decide if they want to accept it effective immediately or at any time during the notice period. It’s not an involuntary termination at that point.
End of line.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

Thanks for clearing that up

MCP

Valued Contributor

Sales Director

Glad to help. I’ve seen this several times first hand, so much so that one time the guy literally pulled up to the office in a U-Haul. Of course, to teach him a lesson, the VP told him that his 2 weeks was accepted and he was expected to honor it.<br>He let him go after lunch.
End of line.

poweredbycaffeine

WR Lieutenant

☕️

Voluntary resignation is grounds for the company to do whatever tf they want since you are, in most cases, an at-will employee.

Beans

Big Shot

Enterprise Account Executive

Fire me fuckers.

LordOfWar

Tycoon

Blow it up

Find a free legal clinic and get them to verify.

Usually they can't terminate because of notice but can choose to pay you out. We have done that before to avoid any potential leak of sensitive information after someone in a JR role gives notice.

SADNES5

Politicker

down voters are marketing spies

You owe them as much notice as they give you when you get fired.

You should plan on no notice. Always. Especially in sales. Set a week for yourself mini-vacay or not. But fuck it, if big corp wants to shitcan me at anytime for anyreason - I can quit too. It won't burn a bridge if you make sure your ducks are lined up and easy to take over.

My current employer would lock me out of computer access etc just in case I was going to take leads etc. But I have a "mandatory severance" in my contract, even if they fire me with cause. You gotta play your cards right.

SaaSam

Politicker

Account Executive

I've come to realize that the only companies that deserve a notice are the ones that would give their employees the same courtesy.

Mjollnir

Politicker

Unemployed Account Executive

this is terrible. sounds like this is a standard practice in america to get fucked by your company

IYNFYL

Politicker

Enterprise SaaS AE

Many times they will let you go after putting in your resignation as they know you won’t do shit for the next two weeks, also many are paranoid you will sabotage sales deals. I did that once and they paid me out my last two weeks but didn’t need me around.
I would always comment in your notice that you are willing to transition deals and most people will want you to stay and use your help.

SaaSyBee

Politicker

Founder

Yeah, that happens so often. If he can afford the 2 weeks without pay, I'd say just enjoy the time off. Time off between gigs is something that's so helpful.

BUT it's shitty that companies do this. They expect employees to give 2 weeks and then don't provide the same kindness.