M
M

Madridgal

Manager Corporate Partnerships

Executive
Catalyst
Valued Contributor
+4

How many follow ups are too many?

Hi all,


So sometimes I get to a point where I want to "give up" on trying to get an answer from this prospect. Typically I go by the saying "persistent but polite", and just keep at it until I get a cold "NO".


Interested to hear what everyones thoughts on this are.


j



🔎 Prospecting
👑 Sales Strategy
💌 Cold Emailing
15

35 comments

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paddy
WR Officer
8
Director of Business Development
Follow ups over email or calls?

If it's emails, I think 3-4 tops. Hit em with the classic @GeneralCorp breakup email on your last one.


Calls have no limit until you get a no or hear from them in my opinion. But don't be an idiot with spacing them out.
SaaSam
Politicker
0
Account Executive
Agreed. When it comes to calls I don't think the volume matters so much as the frequency.
CoorsKing
WR Officer
5
Retired King of the Coors Knights
3-4 emails and roughly that many calls then move on.
someoneinsales
Tycoon
3
Director of Sales
69

Ok seriously, I typically follow up 7-10 times, but a follow up doesnt count if you just say bumping to top of inbox. 

After attempt ten, I put a note to reach back out in 3 months to start over. 
MajorB
WR Lieutenant
2
AE
In 2019 Gartner found it takes 18 dials to connect with a buyer. 

Sales Development best practices are to have around 16 touch points spread out over the course of a month that include phone, email, and social. 

Adding social into your outreach even if the buyer doesn't engage with or respond to with you on social media increases bookings for SDR orgs by something like 20%.


If the prospect doesn't respond, put them on ice for 2-3 months, and then try again with a new sequence - same idea. 


Here's the Gartner info -  https://www.gartner.com/en/articles/sales-development-technology-the-stack-emerges

Other stat I have to go find the article with that finding. 
paddy
WR Officer
6
Director of Business Development
Do you not think that 16 touch points is a tad excessive? I really hope you're talking about calls because if someone sent me anything close to 16 emails I'd go out of my way to excoriate them. 
BmajoR
Arsonist
1
Account Executive
I don't think they meant 16 emails. I would probably do 4 emails, one a week, with 2 social touches and the rest calls. 
MajorB
WR Lieutenant
-2
AE
16 touch points over a month is not excessive. 
16 emails over the course of a month is excessive.
UrAssIsSaaS
Arsonist
2
SaaS Eater
I dont know why this is being downvoted, i agree. If you are calling multiple stakeholders within an org its pretty easy to hit 16 touchpoints via call/email over the course of a month, its 2 per week for 4 weeks. Not insane at all. 

Beyond that its getting excessive. 
BmajoR
Arsonist
1
Account Executive
Do you think that should be spread out evenly over the month or how would you approach each channel/timing?
MajorB
WR Lieutenant
-2
AE

Growth Genie has a pretty solid sequence you can check out here -->  https://growthgenie.co/ultimate-outbound-sales-cadence/


Or you could do something like this: 

Day 1 : engage on social (if they're on social & active) via liking a post + commenting

Day 3: connect on LI

Day 4: phone call + voicemail + email (voicemail should direct prospect to the email + email should be an "awareness" email -- no ask)

Day 6: Phone call + Phone call

Day 8: email bump -- "curious to know how you're dealing with ___?"  

Day 9: engage on social 

Day 11: Phone call

Day 12: context email on how you help customers like them solve problem + opened ended ask

Day 13: engage on social

Day 15: Phone call + VM

Day 17: new email highlighting new problem + open ended ask

Day 19: Phone call 

Day 21: email bump adding more context as to why them, why now

Day 23 Social + Phone call

Day 26: Last email asking for coaching

I'd avoid break-up emails. Why would you break-up with someone who's never responded to your advances? Instead, ask for coaching.
CoorsKing
WR Officer
6
Retired King of the Coors Knights
If someone sent me all that I’d reply with a restraining order lol that’s way too much
MajorB
WR Lieutenant
-2
AE
Did you take a marketing class? Are you familiar with the rule of 7? When was the last time you were in seat as a BDR?
CoorsKing
WR Officer
5
Retired King of the Coors Knights
Yes I’ve taken a marketing class, I was a marketing major. 4 years ago (ish). And I guarantee I had better average annual performance than anyone that follows that sequence :)
MajorB
WR Lieutenant
1
AE
Interesting. Any data around less touches = higher bookings? Everything I've read up to this point (& experienced as a SDR) points to the opposite. 

What I posted is essentially a modified Agoge sequence, which Outreach has proven drives higher meetings booked. ( https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/writing-copy-closers-blueprint-2x-response-rates-sam-nelson/)

BmajoR
Arsonist
2
Account Executive
Oh snap, we've got a marketer in here. I knew there was something off about you. Mr. big internet marketing bad ass. 
CoorsKing
WR Officer
3
Retired King of the Coors Knights
Damn you need a hobby haha. No, I’ve never spent my free time reading up on the “mysterious ways of the SDR” because frankly:
1) never needed to
2) don’t give a shit

However, if we are going off personal experience then yes - when I did long multi touch sequences I had a drastically higher opt out rate.

I deliver my value prop up front, and if they don’t respond then I put them on the back burner for a few months and try again. 

To each their own I guess. If it takes you 30 touches to get a response, do what you gotta do.

We also sell to extremely different teams - I sell to security and you sell enablement. That is a factor as well.
MajorB
WR Lieutenant
1
AE
I don't sell to enablement, but sure. 

I also avoid automation in emails: research upfront on the prospect & company & make that my subject; them. Not my value prop. 

Seemed to work for me. I was the #1 SDR at my company. 

Also - it's not a hobby. I like to know what I'm talking about, and have actual data to back up what I'm saying if I'm going to give advice to someone. Considering that selling to CROs and VPs of Sales is my job, I better know what the fuck I'm talking about, otherwise I will be reamed. 
CoorsKing
WR Officer
5
Retired King of the Coors Knights
Funny! I was the top SDR at one time as well. That is what I mean by value prop… “why them, why now, why my tool” etc.

And as my job is selling to IT and Security, I can tell you that volume will get you added to the black list faster than yelling bomb in an airport. So - my point is there are multiple factors that go into what the “right” amount of touches is, including industry and personnel target.

Let’s agree to disagree shall we?
MajorB
WR Lieutenant
1
AE
I imagine it's volume + timing. 

If you had 6 emails, three of which are follow ups, over the course of 2 months, would it really get you blacklisted? Maybe. Maybe not. 

From what I've read, being multi-channel (emails, social, and phone) have the highest likelihood of increasing your bookings. How you spread those touches & what medium you use to spread those touches out is up to the rep. 

Use Outreach or Salesloft to A/B test messaging + cadencing. Keep what works. Can what doesn't. 

And, sounds good. 
CuriousFox
WR Officer
5
🦊
Not to take over y'alls conversation but this amount of outreach could make a prospect feel like they are being pecked by a hundred chickens.
sahil
Notable Contributor
3
Deepak Chopra of Sales
@MajorB @bigmeech - you're both right. MajorB said they sell to sales leaders. Sales leaders are fine with an aggressive approach cuz... yanno ... #sales. When I sell to sales, I text call email LNKD message til the cows come home. It's the right approach. BigMeech sells to IT and Security. They are NOT okay with a 16 touch sequence... will def get you banned. Being hyperpersonalized and taking it SLOW is important. Let's proceed with context, and keep it civil. I love the passion around sales :$)
pinkiesup
Catalyst
2
AE
Okay I’m glad I read the comments because I’m very new to being an SDR still and knowing what works and I’ll be fixing my 26 step sequence and cutting it way down. Feeling like an idiot now
UrAssIsSaaS
Arsonist
2
SaaS Eater
Would love to hear how you came up with a 26 step sequence and who told you that would be a good idea. 
CoorsKing
WR Officer
4
Retired King of the Coors Knights
Probably someone from Gong
UrAssIsSaaS
Arsonist
2
SaaS Eater
Ahh why didnt I think of that. @beezechurger can you confirm? 
BmajoR
Arsonist
2
Account Executive
No, we follow a 16 step sequence, ya turd burglars. <3
LordBusiness
Politicker
1
Chief Revenue Officer
Your job is to get the yes/no as fast as humanely possible. Maybe will kill you. If someone ever says “I was gonna to buy, but you followed up too much” they are lying and were just wasting your time anyways
Coffeesforclosers
Notable Contributor
1
Director Sales and Market Development
If it is time its time, only you know. Is this a target customer like top 15? then never, i just get more creative. Random prospect hit them 8-12 times over the course of a quarter/year in a cadence. Its all about approach and multi threading for me
DrunkenArt
Politicker
1
Sales Representative
I usually stick with 6-7 touches overall and then recycle it. 
Justatitle
Big Shot
0
Account Executive
Drip campaign through marketing after try 10 or 11 
MCP
Valued Contributor
0
Sales Director
Do what you think feels right, there’s no magic potion. Some answer right away, some never, some much later because it wasn’t the right time. Don’t waste time chasing those who don’t want to buy, find those who do.
goose
Politicker
0
Sales Executive
Are you engaged and they went cold or are you sending emails with no response? Sending emails before engagement? Make sure they are getting there. Many prospects have email filtering that can shut you out and you don’t know. Engaged? Go with a “have your given up on…” email per Chris Voss. Works most of the time. Calls? If you feel you are a valuable add for them don’t stop.
VincentAdultman
Opinionated
0
Enterprise Account Executive
732
cavanova
Opinionated
0
AE selling Construction Software
i just add all my follow up prospects to a 10 step call only sequence, i’ll do pressure on for 1 week followed by pressure off for 2 weeks

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