kpkindasells

Sales representative

Is a PIP the beginning of the end?

i recently got put on a pip at my job for not doing enough outbound work. i havent had a lot of guidance in my role due to past management but now with a new strictly numbers based boss, everything has flipped upsode down.

they told me that a pip is not something they use to fire people but from everything i've heard from other sales reps, it makes the beginning of the end. i can pick up the output no problem but it's the micromanagement from my direct boss and higher ups that makes me not want to even try.

any advice from someone who has been on a pip before about what you experienced would be helpful! just trying to decide if i want to look for a new job now or wait.

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32 comments

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SportsSalesGuy

Tycoon

Enterprise Account Executive

PAID INTERVIEW PERIOD
Once on a PIP, it's made to be very unattainable, and if you beat it, your life most likely will continue to suck at that place. They want you gone. It sucks, but you have to try to beat it and also interview for other jobs; that's my recommendation. Gotta play both sides unfortunately, for caution.

I also recommend speaking with Dan Goodman on LinkedIn

jefe

Arsonist

🍁

If you didn’t say it I would have. @kpkindasells starting look ASAP

Kosta_Konfucius

Politicker

ERP Sales

1000%!

Pachacuti

Politicker

They call me Daddy, Sales Daddy

Get out while you can do so on your own terms.

CuriousFox

WR Officer

🦊

Agreed.

medhardwaredr

Politicker

Director of Sales NA

Yes and no. I use them as guiding tools to wake up distracted reps that being said I’ve only done one.
They are used to move out people for one reason or another quite often.
Whatever steps they have on your plan, make sure you follow them and achieve them to a T. This will help in leveraging separation benefits should it come to that.

Filth

Tycoon

**WarRoom's Most Unhinged**

Have you ever actually kept a PIP winner a year past? We consider a PIP a paid interview period here as non-managers and have seen little reason to think otherwise. I have a feeling you aren't being honest (not necessarily maliciously) that if its NOT the end chapter of a reps book at your org/your team it's instead the penultimate chapter, not a, "hey buck up" and was around for the next 2-4 years...

But i have been wrong at least once before.

medhardwaredr

Politicker

Director of Sales NA

I have an account manager who was pipped three years ago and is now my top performer in that division. I at the time wasn’t her manager but yes people on pips can succeed

Filth

Tycoon

**WarRoom's Most Unhinged**

Ok - I'll take that and appreciate your use of the PIP or at least understanding of it - but that seems to definitely be a minority statistic of conquering and then staying. I don't believe all managers share the view that nature of the PIP to be a path towards redemption and a wake up more likely it's the swinging the leg back before it kicks forward to knock them out the door.

medhardwaredr

Politicker

Director of Sales NA

Yes the assumption out there is a pip is to get the employee out which I agree is by far the most common use for it

someanondude

Old School Bravo

Sr. Sales Consultant with Management background

As a sales manager, I've mostly avoided PIP's , but of the few I've written up, all were gone by PIP's term's end.

someanondude

Old School Bravo

Sr. Sales Consultant with Management background

imho...by FAR , the exception, not the RULE!

salesservant

Executive

Director, Business Dev

I have PIP'd a couple and both were intended to be fully attainable. One beat it and the other didn't. I agree, it's often a tool to move someone out; I think any sales rep with a grain of self reflection will know which is which and what kind of manager they're dealing with. @kpkindasells you're going to be micromanaged on a PIP, that's the nature of the PIP. Only you can tell if it's been made to beat or made to move you out. Best of luck to you - keep on keepin' on.

Sunbunny31

Arsonist

Sr Sales Executive 🐰

It's going to be organization-dependent (see madhardwaredr's post). Honestly - if you're inclined to give up because the metrics have shifted and your new management is taking a look at numbers, you may want to consider why you feel that way. Self-sabotaging behavior isn't going to help you in the long run, even in the cases of micromanagement. You can focus on working on those numbers and doing the best job you can while keeping your ears and eyes open for new opportunities - it's something we say here frequently: always be looking. But I wouldn't give up and just not try. That's a great way to set yourself up for failure.

GatorCoog

Executive

Account Executive

Speaking as someone that was PIP'd for very dubious reasons that I won't bore anybody here with, if you're getting micro-managed, berated, and degraded consistently it is VERY difficult psychologically to perform. Especially if it's something you've excelled at in the past and everything you do becomes a question you have to defend and your answers are never correct (even when they actually are).

Sunbunny31

Arsonist

Sr Sales Executive 🐰

That sounds like a situation where PIP is a welcome Paid Interview Period, and good riddance.
Fortunately, that kind of corporate gaslighting can be recovered from once you find a company that values your experience.

SafetyKnight

Tycoon

Account Executive

Usually yes, but I have beaten a PIP one time

Justatitle

Tycoon

Account Executive

PIP= Paid Interview Period. Look everywhere else for a new role

FinanceEngineer

Politicker

Sr Director, sales and partnerships

Hate to say it, but unless you are given specific targets that are measurable and realistic, it is a lie to get you to do more work on your way out. What are the targets that you were given, and where are you today?

Diablo

Politicker

Sr. AE

Start looking out. No matter what they say, you are on the radar. All the best!!

Armageddon

Opinionated

Enterprise Account Executive

Really depends on the company. It’s supposed to be a performance “improvement” plan designed to give reps a chance to show their value and improve their skill sets in the process. Most often it’s just a legal check the box to move someone out of business without risk of an unlawful termination lawsuit

Gasty

Notable Contributor

War Room Community Manager

Always be looking. I guess a little more aggressively than before. Plus, start outbounding, it's not guaranteed that micromanagement will not happen at the next org. So, try to push back with efforts but keep looking.

GatorCoog

Executive

Account Executive

Unfortunately, I've never met anyone that has survived a PIP - myself included.
What I have seen successful, again myself included, is negotiating your exit. It's still a low probability play, but higher success rate (disclaimer here that this is obviously anecdotal to my experience and observations) than surviving a PIP.
Position it strategically and you need to have a candid conversation with your manager and use every ounce of sales skills that you have.

IanJ

Executive

Enterprise Business Development

I've even seen people meet or beat their PIP requirements and still get fired.
I'd start interviewing yesterday.

GDO

Politicker

BDM

Most of the time yes

SalesPharaoh

Big Shot

Senior Account Executive

I passed a PIP only to be put on ANOTHER PIP 2 weeks later. it's paid interview period and eventually they fired me mid 2nd PIP.

TargetFocused

Executive

Account Executive

Start interviewing 100% but also do what you can against the PIP.

tonysoprano

Tycoon

Sr. AE

Feel like it depends on the manager. I've been put on a PIP by a new manager to the org. Had a massive pipe and was coming off a 98% quarter, but wasn't hitting his new outbound metrics. It was all put in writing - basically daily call volume, weekly net new opps, etc. in a one month period. I did everything that was asked of me and was canned a week and a half later with not much explanation. wish I knew of dan goodman when that happened

someanondude

Old School Bravo

Sr. Sales Consultant with Management background

KPKindaSells - I strongly advise you to use the PIP period as a "PAID Interview PERIOD". The truth is 99% of the time..the PIP is the harbinger of what is inevitable (A Termination). I would gather your info, save any data you might feel is pertinent to you , heck (I've even had it where I refused to sign the PIP, and lasted about a month post that date) If you feel you have been wronged, a conversation about severance might be wise. BUT again...use that PIP period as a PAID INTERVIEW PERIOD!!!
-AnnonymousDude1848

Director

In my career, I put two people on PIPs and both were not good performers. So the PIP was merely part of the process in order to terminate them. I strongly recommend you begin looking for an exit. The micromanagement would drive me up the wall.

Owner

PIPs are created when the organization and/or sales
management feel the need to issue an ultimatum. The ultimatum is: either meet
the assigned goals by the deadlines identified in the PIP or you will soon no
longer be part of that organization. That may sound harsh, but it is the
reality of the situation. Knowing that, you must evaluate your options.

If you want to remain with your organization, you need to
have a frank conversation with your manager asap. A PIP will have certain goals you
must achieve. When you are
speaking with your manager, seek to understand the goals and how they were
determined.
Those goals may be a real stretch, but they should be realistic and
attainable. Review each of them with your manager to confirm you have a full
understanding of what you must deliver, and by when. If you feel the goals are
not realistic then seek agreement on what can be changed. That is, provided
they are willing to do so.

Ask your manager to help you strategize. Be sure to
communicate that you value your position, and you will do everything within
your power to successfully complete the PIP because you want to retain your
job. Update your manager on your progress frequently. Be proactive and
communicative because your job depends on it!

The other obvious choice you have is to find another
position. Only you can determine if that is your best choice but sometimes a
change of scenery and a fresh start is the better option. Even if that is your
choice, do not simply move on without deep soul searching and a root cause
analysis. You need to identify and understand how you got to the point of going on a PIP.
If you have professional shortcomings that you do not address you may
soon find yourself in another challenging situation. The key is to learn from
your challenges and do what is necessary to overcome them.

MikeHoops

Fire Starter

Account Executive

Honestly, I’ve been on a PIP once before, and weirdly it ended up being a turning point for me in a good way. I realized the expectations weren’t even clear until that doc hit my inbox. I don’t think it has to be the beginning of the end, but it definitely exposes whether your manager wants to invest in you or just paper-trail you out. (hopefully the latter)