NotCreativeEnough profile picture
NotCreativeEnough profile picture

NotCreativeEnough

Professional Day Ruiner

Big Shot
Politicker
Executive
+9

Oracle Sues Their Own Sales Rep for 200k

don't you just love when companies want to punish their top performers and push them out the door to go work elsewhere instead of reward them and keep them happy? 

this is how you lose great sales people and end up with mediocre ones. 




🤠 Culture
😳 Ethics
☁️ Software Tech
42

64 comments

Sort by:
CuriousFox
WR Officer
19
🦊
Gross Oracle.
antiASKHOLE
Tycoon
15
Bravado's Resident Asshole
Ha I saw this the other day and thought of posting it here. It's stupid when companies try to cap commission when they say there isn't one to begin with. Great way to kill their chances of getting any real talent down the road.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
2
Professional Day Ruiner
yeah I thought this group would find this one entertaining
revenuegenerator
Praised Answer
11
Sales Management
This is the most Oracle thing ever.

Potentially the worst sales experience to have on your resume
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
4
Professional Day Ruiner
so grateful I never ended up working for them.
revenuegenerator
Praised Answer
0
Sales Management
Yeah, you dodged a bullet
Sunbunny31
Politicker
8
Sr Sales Executive 🐰
Speaking from experience, Oracle is not alone. The big deal clause is on those comp plans, and this is a result. Have a huge deal? Lose a significant chunk of the commission. Have a great year? This happens. Not saying it's right, just that it's not only Oracle.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
2
Professional Day Ruiner
love that my company doesn't do this. Everyone has the same quota (relative to territory size) and same comp plan. No moving goal posts or secrets buried in the comp plan. Keep it all clear, concise, and honest.
Sunbunny31
Politicker
5
Sr Sales Executive 🐰
Well, the problem for those big companies is outlined here. They give you a comp plan, and within the comp plan they reserve the right to review commissions at any time. Somewhere I have a copy of one of my old ones, but "big deals" are specifically called out. If you don't sign the plan, you won't work there any more, so you can disagree all you want.

Ultimately, reps do what I did and leave, and all that knowledge base walks right out with them.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
yep. going back on an agreed upon comp plan is a great way to have a mass exodus of your best sales people and the clients they've built relationships with.

I think a lot of companies tend to forget that when you hire a sales person you're not just paying for them to close deals. you're also paying for access to all of their past clients and relationships they've built over the years.
SoccerandSales
Big Shot
7
Account Executive
"In excess of 250%" --- This really sounds like a company that wants you to do good not great
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
4
Professional Day Ruiner
they want "above average" performers, not top performers. which makes no sense to me.

If you pay a sales rep a shit ton in commission, its because they're earning you even more than that.
jefe
Arsonist
7
🍁
Saw this last week and meant to post - so ridiculous.

How is this ever in a company's favour!?
Sunbunny31
Politicker
5
Sr Sales Executive 🐰
It happens at all major tech companies. They use the clause to keep "uncapped" commission from going too high. A rep can close a massive deal and have their quota cut by the company enforcing the comp plan rule. The reason they'll give is that with accelerators and the number of people who take a % of he commissionable amount, they end up paying out more than they should on a big deal or a really great year. The impact is a carve out of often significant money.

Often the rep leaves. Sometimes they negotiate a settlement. Sometimes it leads to litigation.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
3
Professional Day Ruiner
absolutely insane for a company to do it. Guarantee if that was the commission on the deal then they made significantly more than that off of it.
Kosta_Konfucius
Politicker
4
Sales Rep
Dang it took 3 years to figure out
ChumpChange
Politicker
4
Channel Manager
I just don't understand this line of thinking. If you have an IC capable of pulling massive deals like this... wouldn't you want them to stay on the payroll to get you more massive deals? This has upper management (*cough* Finance *cough*) written all over it.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
2
Professional Day Ruiner
yep it never makes sense to me. I think people too high up get bitter that a sales rep is making more than them and don't want it to happen because of some sense of eliteness or entitlement.
ChumpChange
Politicker
2
Channel Manager
I've personally heard and seen this stance. I always make it a point to tell them that in most companies, a high-performing sales IC is making as much as a VP and they still don't believe me.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
0
Professional Day Ruiner
a company that wants awesome sales people who crush revenue targets allows their sales reps that flexibility and income potential
ppg
Catalyst
2
All around good guy
That’s because the rep would make more than its boss or the CEO!!! 🙀

Can’t let that happen! 😎
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
oh yeah managers envy is absolutely a huge part of it.
rharris415
Contributor
2
Founder
It's simply about setting precedence. From Oracle's point of view, they have to do this. Otherwise anytime there is a dispute on commissions they could be liable for more $.

The real question, now that they have gone outside the arbitration

1. Does the former employee try to get the case dismissed since they aren't allowed to sue in court?

2. Does the former employee now have the right to turn around and sue them for these new legal fees and then perhaps even more on emotional distress?
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
precedence, and making it so convoluted and expensive the employee just takes the L. Then other employees will see how insane it was and not try to take on the same fight in the future.
HappyGilmore
Politicker
4
Account Executive
Oracle not in the mood to lose out on a single penny
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
gotta keep those wallets tight in this economy! 😂
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
3
Professional Day Ruiner
Adding: Didn't realize this article was from 2017. Still absolutely insane though.
jefe
Arsonist
5
🍁
That was why I didn't post it right away. However you're right - it does NOT take away from the insanity of it.
Coffeesforclosers
Notable Contributor
3
Director Sales and Market Development
$660k commission check, wowzer
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
0
Professional Day Ruiner
right? I could use a commission check like that in my life
rharris415
Contributor
3
Founder
Let's not forget, Larry needs to buy another island
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
I mean one island is just simply not enough. What if its raining at that island while you want to relax, then what?
OldSchoolEightiesStyle
Good Citizen
3
Global Vice President
Companies love their super star sales people until they start making more money than their management team. Those in marketing and finance especially hold a grudge. In a lot of cases Senior Sales Leaders know what's in the pipeline and take over big deals like this under the guise of "Corporate Sales". They want us to make sales and give us the opportunity to make money, but not too much money. (LinkedIn shows she's still with Oracle)
JDialz
Politicker
2
Chief Operating Officer
Add in compliance dickheads and you have the evil axis. In my industry most of the compliance people are just failed advisors.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
0
Professional Day Ruiner
the best compliance managers are the ones who don't give a fuck. the rest of them are a waste of oxygen
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
marketing in particular gets extra salty with sales people and I've never really understood why other than their superiority complex.

Can't believe she still works for them. Has to be because of some type of settlement agreement.
Saleswithsingh
Good Citizen
2
Sales manager
This is nuts!
FoodForSales
Politicker
2
AE
capping commission is a SDE move
Epictetus
Valued Contributor
2
SaaSy
I know we made you sign this contract that said this arbitration was binding, but that's because we thought you'd lose. Now, we are going to sue you.
JDialz
Politicker
2
Chief Operating Officer
Should be dismissed with prejudice, right?
Epictetus
Valued Contributor
4
SaaSy
I actually haven’t practiced law in a while, but it’ll still cost her money for the motion to dismiss. So that sucks. They are bullying her.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
I think they're basically just banking on making the process so complicated and expensive that she drops it
JDialz
Politicker
2
Chief Operating Officer
We don’t have quotas, but we do have a single-month maximum payout based on a formula. It is NOT a cap, however. In any single month we won’t pay out more than 2.5x a trailing 12mo production average. In this scenario the balance is held in escrow and paid over the next 3mo. This protects both the firm and the Advisor from large reversals.
JDialz
Politicker
2
Chief Operating Officer
Pretty shitty of Oracle though, I must say. Caps are bogus.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
2
Professional Day Ruiner
yeah that makes sense. Plus from a company perspective, the logistics of paying out a lump sum like that could turn into a nightmare. Bank issues, taxes, 401k contributions, its a lot for payroll to have to figure out.
JDialz
Politicker
2
Chief Operating Officer
For sure. All of those, and also the shitty conversation that goes something like this:

Me: "Hey Pete, you remember two months ago where you got paid $180k on your new business?"

Pete: "Oh I remember! That was a killer month. Best month ever! Paid off my student loans, bought an engagement ring finally, and I'm gonna do something really awesome for my parents next week. Really supercharged my motivation."

Me: "Dope. So... you had some reversals so we actually need you to cut a check for $85k by the end of the week. Thanks a bunch man."
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
yeah that one would suck. claw backs are the worst.
mastersfan
Opinionated
2
Account Executive
I'm all for fighting the power, but that was 2017. Click bait.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
2
Professional Day Ruiner
yeah I didn't realize it was from 2017 until after I posted it. still crazy though nonetheless.
sergio
Contributor
1
sales representative
hahaha lol
Thymaster
Fire Starter
1
Senior Sales Rep
I would love to have this problem. Does Oracle pay that good? If a company is paying 200,000 plus a year I would be a little angry but still ya gotta look at the forest through the trees.
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
0
Professional Day Ruiner
yes and no. If you were promised to make X amount, then when you actually did it they changed their mind and said nope actually we don't want to pay you that we're shorting you a huge chunk, you'd be pretty pissed too.
PhlipOut
Politicker
1
Account Executive
Looks like she still works there though.. weird?
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
1
Professional Day Ruiner
I'd be gone the day the check cleared my account. Hell if I'm taking someone to court then continuing to work for them. sounds like they would just make you miserable.
10XQLA
Politicker
1
Medical Sales Assassin
Larry Ellison is Satan
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
2
Professional Day Ruiner
South Park satan or more like little Nicky?
HTXCloser
Contributor
1
Director of Business Development
We should call this dumb commission plans. One time I worked for a company that tried to clawback commission in quarter you made less than quota. It was stupid. So since you can’t claw back from zero. I just beat quota in two quarters with goose eggs in the other. Just ridiculous. Why would you penalize a rep for closing business?
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
0
Professional Day Ruiner
every company wants the results of top performers without the expense of top performers.
ThatNewAE
Big Shot
1
Account Executive - Mid enterprise
Specially if it's a huge ass company and they behave this way, I get a kick. :)
NotCreativeEnough
Big Shot
0
Professional Day Ruiner
right? 200k to a company like Oracle is nothing. Yet they're acting like it will put them out of business.
FranchiseSalesQB
Politicker
0
Franchise Sales QB
WA WA WEE WA!
BPD
Personal Narrative
0
Outside Sales
#Unbelievable
Salh
0
Account manager
جيod
Error32
Politicker
0
ISR
unfortunately when I try that method I tend to send emails that can get me fired

Related posts

9

Enterprise Sales Manager Salary?

Question
💰
☁️
12
13

Oracle AE vs Sales Exec

Question
🤝 Interviewing/Offer
17
11
Members only

Sales Manager OTE

Question
💰 Compensation
30
Bravado is a community of trusted sales professionals endorsed by their customers.
Apple Store logo
Products
The War Room Jobs Salary Guide Tech Sales U
Company
About Us How It Works Blog Bug Bounty
Contact
Press Careers
© 2024 Bravado Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy Legal and Privacy Center Sales Jobs
If you are hired as a contract sales rep by a Bravado customer, we may ask you to prove access to the employee email account provided to you by that customer. This data will be shared with customers to track your sales productivity; customers can use this data to confirm you meet the minimum activity requirements to pay out your ramp stipend and commission.