champchamp

Certified Savage

Acclaimed Answer

PIP or Bounce?

Hey Savages,

I got a call and was given two options:

1.- PIP: 4 Week PIP, all metrics seems fine except the last, which mentions I need to create 12 ops in one month, quota is usually 12 ops in one quarter.

I mentioned this was unreasonable and they said one person has achieved it so it is doable, 1 out of around 30.

2.- 4 Week severance. sign a mutual departure agreement. 24 hours to accept.

I was told that if I fail to achieve the pip I'll be terminated and the severance package will be off the table.

My manager also said "It'l suck if you take the severance but I understand you must do what's best for you and your family". Not sure if he meant to insinuated that the severance was a better option so I leave.

Been with this company almost 1 year and never had any issues until they moved me to a different team and changed my manager 8 weeks ago. my performance dropped this quarter (6 weeks in) and now I'm on PIP.

Question 1: although their PIP is unreasonable, do you guys think I'd keep my job if I don't hit their unreasonable number but show a drastic improvement? or should I just bounce?

Question 2: Has anyone successfully negotiated an increase in their severance package? It is "at will employment" so technically they don't need to give me shit and can just tell me to fuck off, so im probably not in the best position to negotiate.

Any additional comments or thoughts are welcomed.

thank you savages.

☁️ Software Tech

🏰 War Stories

62

62 comments

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oldcloser

Arsonist

33

💀

Easy instructions on this one. Two steps. Got a pencil?

1. Take money
2. Run

Ask Steve Miller about this advice.

poweredbycaffeine

WR Lieutenant

11

☕️

Runaway train, never looking back…

oldcloser

Arsonist

3

💀

☝️🎸🎵

ChumpChange

Politicker

2

Channel Manager

FML - I'm old enough to remember Soul Asylum.

Sunbunny31

Politicker

1

Sr Sales Executive 🐰

Cool, have my soundrack for the day.

EmilyCBusch

Praised Answer

20

Congressional Candidate

PIPs aren’t designed for people to succeed, generally. They’re designed to manage someone out of an organization. Don’t risk it. Take the severance. Sorry this is happening to you.

CuriousFox

WR Officer

8

🦊

If they fire you which is option 1 then you will get unemployment. If you quit then you won't. Keep that in mind.

poweredbycaffeine

WR Lieutenant

9

☕️

Who needs unemployment when you have credit cards and malt liquor?

0

Sales Development Representative

LOL!

WheelofCheese

Opinionated

1

Sales Executive

Not always the case unfortunately. Getting fired for poor performance can disqualify you from receiving unemployment benefits. Typically, the employer will deny the benefits for just cause and it is up to the former employee to contest it. It's a gamble. NOTE: Unemployment benefits vary by state.

Darkstar

Good Citizen

2

Account Executive

state dependant but accurate. He needs to document the unattainable PIP metrics and responses as much as possible.

Gyro25

Notorious Answer

7

Account Executive

Wow, I'm sorry to hear. That's a shit circumstance regardless. I'll be honest, I'd likely just sign the agreement and attempt to negotiate.

That PIP sounds impossible. 1/30 are terrible odds for 12 ops in a single month when it's generally a quarter? That's insane

It seems like they're giving you an out, even though it might be a shitty way to do it. You gotta do what you gotta do, but with family, I'd take the money, ask for a referral if possible, and leave on semi-good terms.

RandyLahey

Politicker

6

Account Manager

Take the money and dip my friend. Fuck that place.

Sunbunny31

Politicker

4

Sr Sales Executive 🐰

Love that they base the metric on the outlier. And possibly that outlier couldn't replicate that success a second time.

Sounds like you have a month either way. One comes with unemployment after if they let you go, the other is a voluntary departure and a hard cutoff after a month.

I'm so sorry this happened.

Kosta_Konfucius

Politicker

3

Sales Rep

I am really sorry to hear this. Its a stressful situation to say the least.

Before any of this happened did you enjoy working there? I think if the answer is meh, there is your answer.

Super shitty situation, but the main thing you need to do is do what is right for you and your family.

Diablo

Politicker

3

Sr. AE

Sorry to hear about that.
Is it a 2 or 4 week severance. Know about that first.

It’s very difficult to give suggestions, do what’s best for you.

WheelofCheese

Opinionated

3

Sales Executive

Sounds to me they are hoping you leave. (1) They are giving you 4 weeks to achieve major results (not realistic) and (2) they are offering you a severance package. The PIP is typically given when management needs to check the box on the firing process 9 out of 10 times. Take the money and look elsewhere. Otherwise, you are just going to be spinning your wheels and will have nothing to show for it more than likely. If you think you'd be better off getting terminated and applying for unemployment that is a potential option-- although getting fired for poor performance may disqualify you. Something to think about. If they wanted to keep you around, they would have given you a longer performance improvement ramp (e.g. 3 to 6 months) along with an offer of support. I'm sorry to hear this is the situation. Keep your head up and move on. Just my opinion! NOTE: Unemployment benefits vary by state. Do some research ahead of time so you know if this is an option.

ChumpChange

Politicker

2

Channel Manager

This reeks of corporate tactics to lower headcount without having to pay unemployment.

Darkstar

Good Citizen

2

Account Executive

you have a 4-week severance in either case. Depending on the state you can fight to get unemployment after the termination. In even Ca if you take the sevvy you will be quitting I think as voluntary separation and not get unemployment. My recommendation. Take PIP and milk it for 4 weeks and get terminated with unemployment

Darkstar

Good Citizen

2

Account Executive

but make no mistake you are out of a job today or in a month. PIPs are only that.

Pachacuti

Politicker

1

They call me Daddy, Sales Daddy

Do you think you can hit that metric? If so, probably worth staying.

It’s a rock and a hard place. Are you the only one being treated like this? Are they singling you out? Have there been other issues?
I have the feeling we don’t know the entire story.

Regardless , seems like you got a month there.

FoodForSales

Politicker

1

AE

Seems to me that either way you are probably out in a month. Do you want to be working for them for those 4 weeks and *maybe* still have a job? Or just take the money and have no job?

Havok99

Big Shot

1

Senior Account Executive

Don’t take the severance! Get paid all month to look for another job to get a head start. If you find one fast, you are the one quitting and if not, you still qualify for unemployment. Severance means you get paid the same as if you stayed but you won’t qualify for unemployment. Just my opinion but 95% of the time, pips are only part of the termination process. Especially if the requirements aren’t realistic.

10XQLA

Politicker

1

Medical Sales Assassin

Grab the severance, your contacts, and bounce......

whodis

Valued Contributor

1

Irrelevant

What constitutes an opp? Can your fellow savages help?

HanzoHasashi

Valued Contributor

0

Associate Account Executive

Like Scar told Simba: run away and never return
Jokes aside: PIPs are there to protect the company, and NOT you. Incase there's any wrongful termination shit that pops up, you signing the PIP makes it hard to come after them.

stayfocused

0

Named account executive

I took a severance and then didn’t qualify for unemployment. Take the PIP and tune out. Spend time looking for a job. Unless you’re looking at a huge payout there’s no guarantee you’ll find something soon. Took me 4 months.

carbonara

Executive

0

Account Executive

Gravedigging here, so if you are a PIP, and you take severance, you can’t file for unemployment?

0

Director of Sales, Americas

They want you out. Even if you manage to hit the goals they'll still find some reason things are not working out - maybe it'll take a few months but it'll happen.

kurmd0g

Personal Narrative

0

Sales Manager

100% bounce

thefox

0

Director of Sales

Dip. Jump.

LABillyboy

0

Vice President

I'd need a little more information to opine.
1. What industry? how easy will it be to land a new job in 60 days?
2. What is your base and OTE earnings?
3. Are you getting benefits? When do they expire under each option?
4. Do you like this company? Are they an industry leader? Do customers come to you or do you have to dig deep to find them?
5. How many calls does it take you to get an opportunity into the funnel? How long does that take?
6. Be honest with yourself, is there any way you will hit the metrics in the PIP or is it clear they are just trying to get rid of you?

Basically I want to know if the job is worth the fight and how quickly you can get rehired in a similar income.

Sometimes people end up in this situation because they just aren't happy and it's just time to go. I've had people work through PIPs and stay on for a long time. Those jobs were worth the effort (solid base, big OTE) with solid industry leading companies.

0

Looking for Work

Pretty much what happened to me, except I wasn't given the option of severance. My VP needed to cut headcount so he gave me a quarter's worth of work to complete and a month to do it.

You could use the 4 weeks as a paid job-hunting excursion. But honestly, if I were in your shoes I'd just take the severance.

RelationshipMaker

Opinionated

0

Head of Sales

Leave. Simple. They’re managing you out for some reason. Go to their competitors and let them know you’re on the market.

thekobra

0

Business Development Executive

Welcome to the club friend. New managers can be awful. 8 weeks and already a PIP is nuts

Similar happened to me late last year. 2 straight presidents clubs, then moved to a new team with serious supply chain problems. New manager hit me with a PIP. Not sure what he thought would happen. He asked for more travel and in person meetings and several needing to include several SME (not all at once) regardless of client need.

It was Dec 16th. I was given a month. And travel approval was on hold for the next 3 weeks.

I chuckled. Pointed out that the PIP was literally impossible. He started to back track, but I gave notice before he could finish.

“I do not work for people I can’t trust and respect.”

PIPs are primarily for managing employees out of the org. There is no surviving.

Go find a team and or that values your contribution. Sorry this happened and good luck.

ChuckyCheese

0

Sales Manager

Sorry this is happening. I can relate because we all have been in your shoes. Personally, I would take the money and run because I would have had other opportunities lined up a long time ago. When you do leave on good terms and start your new gig, just remember to always have a plan "B" AT ALL TIMES. I've had long runs and became overly comfortable and learned this lesson. Just remember, as we all know, things can change rapidly. You might want to consider industries and verticals that are less affected by RECESSION and DOWNTURNS.

MyHappyPlace

Big Shot

0

Business Development Representative

In the words of a famous author-“We must accept the end of something in order to begin to build something new.”

cranky_manager

Old School Bravo

0

Sales Manager

They want you out and will find a way eventually so take the severance and run. I'm sorry that this happened but this place sounds terrible so you'll be better off in the long run. This also reeks of a stealth lay-off so I bet this will happen to others there eventually.

Slavic

Fire Starter

0

Director - Enterprise Sales

This is a ploy to not have to pay unemployment. Pretty simple.

That is high cost to the employer and if you mutually separate, they aren’t liable to pay you any unemployment. What I would do is look for another job and either fake the opportunities to buy yourself some time or make them fire you after the 4 weeks.

If you wanna try to get more severance, tell them that you are 90% sure you will sign the PIP, but if the severance is eight weeks you’ll take that option instead. Puts the ball in their court to see how bad they want you out.

Coffeesforclosers

Notable Contributor

0

Director Sales and Market Development

Forrest Gump. Run Forrest Run

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