The War Room
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Post

Team incurred 10k$ losses CEO asks them to pay

So very weird incident, a team in a company has incurred losses amounting to 10k$ this month. Bear in mind we are from Egypt and 10k$ almost what an avg egyptian makes the year in sales as base in our industry, give or take.


Odd thing that instead of firing the team, the CEO is asking them to pay for this from their own pockets.


I'm not sure whether this is common practice or not so here goes the discussion.

Is it common for a company to ask Account Managersto pay for their losses?
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๐Ÿ˜ค Conflict Resolution
31
SADNES5
Politicker
22
down voters are marketing spies
If the company made an extra 10k would they share it with the sales staff? No. Doesn't work both ways.ย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
2
AM BDR
Good point indeed. What would you do if this happened in your company?
SADNES5
Politicker
5
down voters are marketing spies
Wouldn't happen.ย 
Just like if a cook dropped a plate and smashed it. The company will cover.

If a restaurant patron broke a glass. The company will cover.

If there was a "dine and dash". The company will cover.ย 

If there was a robbery. The company will cover.ย 

It's no different in sales, and unless it was signed on for, share in the profits, then share in the loss. Big red flag for me bud. I'd look for another opp elsewhere. Cairo is dope tho.ย 


SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
2
AM BDR
Have you been to Cairo?ย 
SADNES5
Politicker
2
down voters are marketing spies
Alexandria. Siad... And had to do the tourist thing with Cairo.ย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
2
AM BDR
Ah man that's super cool, let me know when you come here next time!
Notorious_Slinger_Official
Fire Starter
2
Senior Territory Account Executive
Love what @sadnes5 has said. This is bananas, this would never happen anywhere in Europe except maybe Albania but I couldn't possibly verify that. In UK where I am, you or the team would just get fired and the company would absorb the loss. That simple. What that company doing is extortion. We're hiring MEA reps and BDRs BTW.ย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
1
AM BDR
As for that I agree they should just fire the employees or figure out the root cause...to avoid it from happe ing again.
JuicyKlay
Politicker
14
AM
I donโ€™t how business is done is Egypt but this sort of thing would never happen in America. At least not with a legitimate company.ย 
funcoupons
WR Officer
6
๐Ÿ‘‘
Wouldn't happen in Canada either...this is the cost of doing business with human beings - the company needs to eat the loss.

The only time it's ok to ask employees to pay back money is if they can prove there was intentional theft, and even then there's court to go through.
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
3
AM BDR
It's why i wanted to ask the WarRoom, because it's the 1st time i hear of this in Egypt. Like Egypt is pretty labor friendly country not corporate friendly.ย 
braintank
Politicker
4
Enterprise Account Executive
Pretty sure this would be illegal in the US
slaydie
Politicker
1
Account Executive
Yeah, I'm confused here because I know this wouldn't happen in America...confused as to what loses occurred and why they would want you to pay them.


At the end of the day there is a cost to running a business that is on the business...
SADNES5
Politicker
7
down voters are marketing spies
Uhhh... It's a business loss. Company should absorb the loss. Maybe fire the guy, but I mean that sucks.ย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
1
AM BDR
Yea super weird like the company should absorb it and especially that we are doing really well this year. I don't know what's wrong with leadership? For me i feel they are trying to humiliate them which is super uncalled for, especially that this team was doing fine last year and this Q they signed big things
Rallier
Politicker
2
SDR Manager
This is the most insane thing I've ever heard. I don't know much about Egypt, but I can't imagine any business culture where that is normal
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
1
AM BDR
Trust me this is the 1st time I hear about it in Egypt.
CuriousFox
WR Officer
2
Senior Account Executive
Damn this seems incorrect regardless of location. ๐Ÿค”
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
1
AM BDR
Im glad I asked this question like im confident thanks to all of you by not accepting this behavior/culture
sketchysales
Politicker
2
Sales Manager
Nope, neither of those options so im not voting.ย  I missed a flight before because i got a bit drunk, the company were pissed off with me but they didnt bill me.ย  It made me more loyal to the company and ive worked harder for it, i know that for sure.ย  Sounds like some seriously messed up management going on here.
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
Very interesting that they payed for the other flight
CaneWolf
Politicker
1
Call me what you want, just sign the damn contract
Dude, that is a colossal amount of bullshit. Are these $10k of losses from losing a customer? If so, that shit just happens.
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
Yes it is from losing a customer, but I need to get more insight on the case
CaneWolf
Politicker
2
Call me what you want, just sign the damn contract
That's insane! It's not like they lost $10k by running up a tab somewhere. They shouldn't be fired and they shouldn't have to pay it back. That stuff happens in business.
Smithy
Politicker
1
Director of Sales
I donโ€™t get how this could legally be ok to do either, unless itโ€™s in their contractsย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
Nope not in any of our contracts
westcoastbestcoast
Fire Starter
1
Account Executive
Wow, ya, where's the option for leadership to take the loss and build a loyal employee??

In other industries, if you crash the company truck they replace it, and sometimes the people are laid off, but man, that's harsh!
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
Yea 10kusd here is a huge number of money. Like if the team even shares it but overall that's a bad hit. Im sure those guys will have some non diplomatic statements over glassdoor.
Chep
WR Officer
1
Commercial Account Executive
Wow 21 Nos and Zero Yes when I voted. Looks like the Warroom has spoken
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
Yea im glad it's unanimous
SaaSKicker1000
Politicker
1
AE II
Definitely out of line - wishing for better things in the future for you man, thatโ€™s fucked.
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
Indeed, it's not my case but well if they qre going after another team today, what would stop them to go after me tomorrow?
swizard
Celebrated Contributor
1
Sales Evangelist
It's very hard to say as there is more detailed context needed to understand the situation better. In a nutshell - the company should just fire the employees, however, that's the easiest solution. Curious to know what was the losses caused by? Could have they been avoided? Is there any way to recoup those funds?ย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
1
AM BDR
Very valid questions, I want to know the answer I do not have the complete story from the other party, just sales side.
nomdeguerre
Valued Contributor
1
VP of Channel Partner Sales
Is he crazy??

The risk of business falls on the business owner, just like he is the one who reaps the rewards if the business is successful.ย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
1
AM BDR
Agreed, im glad everyone on the same page here
mersault
Good Citizen
1
Account Manager
You have to be nuts to continue working in this company (if it's for real). Doesn't make sense.
Incognito
WR Officer
1
Master of Disaster
In the insurance industry, we have what's called "clawbacks".ย 

When we sell a policy, we earn a commission based on that annual premium. If the client cancels the policy prior to the carrier receiving payment in full, we must pay back the portion of the commission based on the remaining balance.ย 

Not every brokerage has the same policy regarding this.

Excellent article for SaaS peeps about this:

https://www.motiveos.com/post/the-quick-guide-to-clawbacks-in-sales-commission-plans
Beasthouse
Opinionated
1
Corporate trainer
that's so dumb it would cost them at least 15k to replace and train them all
wow, people really don't know how to invest in their own people.

That being said I do value a boss who's willing to compromise. But that's just dumb. If their negative 10k, someone more than the manager fucked up. either BI got shit leads, marketing burnt a segment, you have a bunch of fuck up cousins working together for no good reason...etc. But still asking salary employees to cover losses Is a shit move it just puts them behind the 8 ball. 0 motivation value or deposit made in their own people. Fuck it bail you don't have a contract stating you owe them.ย 

either you have a father figure instilling skills and dedication or you're being fucked can't tell hahaha
Blackwargreymon
Politicker
1
MDR
Yeah, I'm confused here because I know this wouldn't happen in America...confused as to what loses occurred and why they would want you to pay them.
MaximumRaizer
Politicker
1
Sales Manager
This is the most insane thing I've ever heard.
Clashingsoulsspell
Politicker
1
ISR
If there was a robbery. The company will cover.ย 
TennisandSales
Politicker
1
Enterprise Account Executive
this is INSANE that the company would ask that! i dont care where you are located haha
antiASKHOLE
Politicker
1
Account Executive
This is crazy to think that they would even try to do this
Kosta_Konfucius
Politicker
1
Sales Rep
I have NEVER heard of this
Angusmacg
Executive
1
Territory Account Mgr.
The only time I've had to "return money" was commissions on items that were returned. My company would pay commission once the products were invoiced. If a customer returned the item (for any given reason) then the company would claw back the commission on the next commission check. It only sucked for me when I took over an account then they had an issue that was my company's fault and ultimately we credited the customer and they took the commission back. The thing was I never received the commission because I wasn't assigned the account at the time of invoice. I argued but the regional mgr. wouldn't back me up.
CreateRLL
1
Intern
Heartland Payment Systems has the following policy for the Salespeople. I would like to hear what you ALL think about this. The Subject Matter is called a True-Up which is attached to the Salesperson A/R Account. Say for example, I sign up a restaurant for credit & debit card processing through Heartland Payment Systems. Prior to Covid-19 this restaurant was producing $500,000.00 of credit card & debit card volume per year and this is noted in the Heartland Application that all customers review & sign. Now, during Covid-19 the majority of restaurants loss substantial business because customers were not coming in. So, during Covid-19 the restaurant is producing $300,000.00 of credit & debit card volume per year. Heartland Payment Systems is slamming that discrepancy of $200,000.00 on the salesperson A/R account calling it a True-Up that the Salesperson has to pay back and is charged every paycheck until the discrepancy is paid back!

What is your thoughts on this maneuver?
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
How many salespeople are left in that company? Also shouldn't the "force majeur" apply in such a case?
DFWMetro
1
Account Executive
Not at all - Losses are always a risk! CEO should absolutely know/understand that (does said 10K affect HIS bonus??)
SalesGal
Politicker
0
Account Executive
Iโ€™ve never heard of something like this but it sounds crazy to me ! Do you know if the employees plan on paying, quitting or other?ย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
I will keep you posted, definetly they will not be planning on paying as I mentioned 10kUSD in Egypt is a whole year salary. So im certain they are gonna leave or wait for the CEO to calm down. Lucky for them a new competitor just arrived in town for once I'm routing for them to join competition.
SalesGal
Politicker
0
Account Executive
Seriously...what a stressful situation to be in thoughย 
SalesPharaoh
Big Shot
0
AM BDR
Oh yea everyone below the CEO is stressed about this like EVERYONE from PR team to MARKETING (IMAGINE!)
JesterQueen
Politicker
0
ISR
I donโ€™t how business is done is Egypt but this sort of thing would never happen in America. At least not with a legitimate company.
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