Unlimited PTO

I'm to the point that the "perk" of unlimited PTO at an org is almost an automatic DQ for me in my job search. My experience is that unlimited PTO actually means no PTO, you're expected to always be 'on' and available from anywhere in the world. As a matter of fact, I recently had to bring my laptop to the Children's Hospital while my toddler had surgery... something I look back on and cringe.


Has anyone ever worked somewhere that has unlimited PTO that actually respects what a vacation is/should be?


ETA: I did search and yes there are many posts related, but none specifically touching on how to view/handle this throughout a job search, that I found.

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52
funcoupons
WR Officer
14
👑
I have the same feelings toward unlimited PTO that you do. I wouldn't DQ an opp because of it, but I'd be asking HR and my potential manager approximately how much PTO most people actually end up taking and how PTO is managed within the team.

I'd much rather have a (generous) set PTO policy. That way, you know exactly how much is acceptable and you're not worrying that you're taking too much (in someone else's eyes) compared to your peers. There's also the ability to be paid out for unused PTO at EOY or when you resign, whereas that isn't an option with unlimited policies.
UserNotFound
Politicker
2
Account Executive
Great idea! TBH I never thought about asking what a typical use of that looks like. Exactly why I posted this, thank you! 
funcoupons
WR Officer
4
👑
No worries!

Also, pay attention to the overall culture of these organizations. I find that unlimited PTO is offered in two types of companies:

1) Startups (usually early stage,) that want to seem cool and appeal to younger employees. Look great on paper, but since they're just getting shit figured out expect to work overtime, including evenings or on weekends. These are the types of orgs where people will look down on you for not answering your work messages after hours because you're "not embracing the vision/being a team player." I'm not shit talking all of these orgs, some people love this atmosphere and the rewards that can potentially come with it but if you're looking for a work/life balance and boundaries this may not be for you.

2) Companies that legitimately do have their shit together and just want the work done. Likely have hands off management styles, are hiring experienced reps that can hit the ground running. They care about your numbers and that's it, so they don't care if you're working from the cabin or want to take a few more days of vacation when you've exceeded quota for the quarter. These are great places to work, but tbh few and far between and there's a lot of competition for positions at these places. Expectations for you will be higher as well - if they let you work from wherever and take time off whenever you want there's going to be less tolerance for missed deadlines and quotas. Hire slow, fire fast is likely the mantra here. Not usually the best fit for entry level people or people who need a bit more attention from management.
CuriousFox
WR Officer
2
🦊
I'd say a start up means you're working 24-7. No vacation for atleast a year.
funcoupons
WR Officer
1
👑
Depends on what stage, super early stage yes.
saygrace
Valued Contributor
0
Sales Executive
🎯 
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
8
☕️
Unlimited PTO, which I have expressed before, is nothing but an accounting trick. It's built to allow companies to eliminate the need for companies to hold money on the books to cover accrued time off that would be paid out at termination.

You'll be hard-pressed to find many companies who pay in the traditional PTO model that were founded after 2014. Why would they hold unnecessary op-ex when they can spend that on other resources?
PleaseAdvise
Executive
2
Account Executive
💥
PleaseAdvise
Executive
1
Account Executive
Spot on PBC
Diablo
Politicker
7
Sr. AE
Unlimited PTO works best for everyone except Sales professionals 😂  because we are still answerable for the numbers 
braintank
Politicker
6
Enterprise Account Executive
Coups is right, as usual. Personally, I've worked at unlimited orgs and ones with very rigid policies.

Unlimited PTO only works if the culture embraces it. If you have unlimited PTO but the CEO is slacking/emailing 24/7 and is all in on the "rise and grind" mentality then it'll be hard to use it without getting guilted. 

However, if leadership takes days off themselves to refresh and re-charge it's a good sign. It was refreshing at my new org (unlimited PTO) to see our CRO take a week off to unplug and relax.

The biggest perk to accruing PTO is the nice bonus when you leave. 
funcoupons
WR Officer
3
👑
<3
Sunbunny31
Politicker
3
Sr Sales Executive 🐰
Yes!  That is the best part of accruing PTO - when you get to cash out.

We had a cap on how much we could bank, so every so often you could take the hours off as a lump sum, within limits.  That was nice as well.
TennisandSales
Politicker
0
Head Of Sales
haha the best part of PTO......is when you dont use it and get paid out. 

I totally agree. 

I have unlimited PTO now and its dope. 

But im starting to realize how lucky i am. 
TheOverTaker
Politicker
4
Senior Account Executive
I have never worked somewhere with unlimited PTO, but from my friends who have, it really depends on how the company handles people taking off. 

I think coups is right, asking how much time other people usually take and how its managed is huge
Sunbunny31
Politicker
4
Sr Sales Executive 🐰
Agreed.  It sounds great on paper, but if in reality the culture doesn't permit the actual taking of time, then it's not a benefit at all.
sketchysales
Politicker
1
Sales Manager
Same for me, where my friend works they took on average almost half the amount of days off compared to where i worked where we had 21 days plus holidays and most everyone took every day off.
SaaSyBee
Politicker
4
Founder
I work somewhere with unlimited PTO and so far it doesn't seem to be bullshit. I've only been there 6 months and I've taken time off almost every month (just a day or two). And no one bugs me while I'm gone or expects a reply.

I have, however, worked places where unlimited PTO was basically only there because on all other days you had to work around the clock. So you could technically take a month-long vacation with no penalty, but you probably needed that month break because you worked 80-hour weeks for 2 years first.
TheNegotiator
Arsonist
4
VP of Sales
I’m only ok with this policy at companies with a mandatory minimum.

i.e. “Take at least two weeks a year, we insist”

That’s slightly better.  Because you know they’re serious.  And then maybe you take 3 or 4 weeks and it was all with it.  Otherwise it’s just a way not to have to pay you out for it.

That said, if I book time and you expect me to be online, I’ll help as required. I’ll just burn the company down when I get back to the office.  Consider that before you call me.
SaaSam
Politicker
3
Account Executive
I have unlimited and it's awesome. Comes in handy when I need a day here or there and when I take a legit vacation the boss man makes sure everyone is aware that they aren't to contact me for anything work related. I love it.
SalesStash
Opinionated
3
Strategic Account Executive
If i had to take my laptop and work while my sons health or life was at risk......I would be throwing the duces up
UserNotFound
Politicker
0
Account Executive
I feel ya- hence the job search, my friend.
JaySaastby
Politicker
3
Account Executive
Funny and relevant story. I just joined a new company with unlimited PTO. The manager of our team made a contest for Q4 and the winners get…. An extra day of PTO in the first month of the new fiscal year.
Not sure if I’m missing something or if this is just a giant red flag.
UserNotFound
Politicker
2
Account Executive
Almost did a legitimate spit take reading this... 🚩🚩🚩
JaySaastby
Politicker
2
Account Executive
Agreed. And she reiterated the prize on our 1 on 1 today. Not sure if I should point out the irony or just keep it to myself for optics. In past companies I definitely would’ve called it out but I’m new here and really enjoying the company so far. Not really trying to get a scarlet A put on my chest for the rest of my tenure here.
UserNotFound
Politicker
1
Account Executive
I feel ya… but definitely file that away!
Avon
Politicker
2
Senior Account Executive
I'd much rather work somewhere that has you accrue it so you can get paid out when you leave. That still screws us a little bit since you only get paid on your base rate, not total package. But its better than getting nothing after you leave. 

My current company unfortunately has unlimited PTO but Im making it a point to never work a full month without at least one 3 day weekend. 
PleaseAdvise
Executive
2
Account Executive
@UserNotFound - You pose a fantastic question.
-Some studies show that when someone has “unlimited PTO” that they actually take off less time than someone who has a set, allocated amount
-I’ve got unlimited PTO, but really it should be called “unlimited PTO as long as your manager approves it”
-I find it funny when perks include both “unlimited PTO” and paid parental leave. Seems a little redundant if they’re both true 🤔
UserNotFound
Politicker
1
Account Executive
🙌🏼 my thoughts exactly!
I’ve come to learn about myself that I actually prefer a PTO policy with flexible working hours/location. Sick kid? Let me WFH. Snow day- WFH. Sitting on the beach in FL? Leave me alone. Lol.
DefaultSalesDude
Executive
1
Director
I'm fortunate I have an healthy PTO policy here in the states.  When I was abroad, the country PTO policy was terrible (IMO).  I do have to say, I rarely use it all.  When you are quota based and you aren't performing, I have a hard time taking all the time off even though I shouldn't look at it that way.
Lucy710
Politicker
1
Channel Account Manager
So far, at my new company and my previous sales gig- PTO means PTO. That being said, it is possible my manager MIGHT text me with an urgent question or I might skim an email or two during the week to keep my deals alive so I don’t have a dry pipeline when I get back. For example, my extended family took a week long family trip and I checked my email on Tuesday/Thursday in the morning that week for about 10-15 min. I do think the benefit/disadvantage of sales is that we have lots of flexibility to take 2 shots of the doctor at lunch, but we also might need to flex our hours too.
That being said, if my family member was in the hospital- totally different!
DungeonsNDemos
Big Shot
1
Rolling 20's all day
It doesn't feel like a perk to me. Looking at real data they actually show that people take LESS PTO when they have unlimited. 
I agree! 
Wellss
Tycoon
1
Channel sales
I've also seen that offering unlimited PTO makes people take less vacation time. However, the company I'm with offers unlimited time off & is one of the few that respects it. It could be because my manager takes her own fair share of time off so it only makes sense for her to approve our time off requests, but I'm grateful nonetheless. 
SaaS1
1
Strategic Account Executive
Unlimited PTO is total BS.  Not only do people end up taking less PTO, but orgs don’t have to pay out unused PTO when someone leaves the company.  It is in almost no way a “perk.”
YoursTruly
Politicker
1
Account Executive (SaaS)
My last company had unlimited pto and then during a rough patch banned all pto for 6 months. Most of us started our job search at about that time. 

my current company has unlimited pto as well as one refresh day every month. Taking pto is encouraged and your encouraged to actually turn it off while you are out. It’s night and day different cultures. 
UserNotFound
Politicker
0
Account Executive
Wow, that sounds amazing! Also, how the fuck can you ban PTO for 6 fucking months?!
FinanceEngineer
Politicker
1
Sr Director, sales and partnerships
It's a trap as they don't have to pay you out when you leave, and taking time off is hard enough. Unless you are an early-stage start-up in operations, you will never take enough time to make it worth it.
duckduckgos
Opinionated
1
Business Development
I have had a different experience than some of the other people in this thread. Currently I am on an unlimited PTO plan and i've had absolutely no problems with it. The only ask i've had (which is flexible) is that you give them a 2 weeks heads up whenever you want to take PTO. 

When you are off at the company I work at you are off. No one is slacking you, no one is bothering you, they really respect you being OOO. 


The culture of how the organization treats Unlimited PTO is much more important than the policy itself. Just my .2 cents!
harebrained
Politicker
1
Enterprise Account Executive
I have unlimited PTO and use it in one of two ways.. I would not DQ an opportunity over it because it seems to be the main option out there, but you might as well milk it.

1 (Infrequent): I am not responding or looking at anything.. usually this is for up to 3 days when I'm going to an all inclusive in Mexico or camping somewhere that I have no service

2 ( more frequent): I only put in a half day for each day out knowing that I will respond to stuff and be available. This lets my PTO report look very reasonable with double the vacation time used, and I don't mind keeping tabs on everything to make sure none of my deals are impacted.

Side note: I definitely have co-workers who take multiple two-week trips each year and say I am completely unavailable and people think that is kind of jerky
aiko
Politicker
1
Sr. Account Executive
I've worked at a few places with unlimited PTO and I take advantage 100% with no regrets. I also see very successful and senior AEs who take 3 day weekends all the time. All that matters is your number!
safetysteve
1
TSM
My current employer is good with unlimited PTO. However, I still think it’s a scam so they don’t have to pay you out on unused PTO. Definitely a red flag, I agree.
It can work but the culture needs to be right and the CEO needs to be 100% on board with it. Otherwise it’s a total sham and you should avoid it.
ventox35
Politicker
1
Sales Leader
unlimited pto is the biggest scam there is. the whole entire pto process is broken and outdated. 
ChunkyButters
Tycoon
1
AE
Really depends on company culture and team.

I have unlimited where I'm at. My manager respects the need to unwind and have time off. But, they also expect you to get your shit done and won't take BS. So, it's unlimited (within reason) if you're a good worker.

One of my last companies had "open pto", just needed to clear it with a manager. I never had an issue using my PTO, but it became clear in the company that some employees were NOT using PTO because they felt that they couldn't just take off whenever. CEO implemented a minimum 2 week policy shortly after that.
bendandsnack
Politicker
1
Account Exec
It 100% depends on the company culture.  I'll never work somewhere without unlimited PTO again. 

I have unlimited PTO and definitely take advantage of it and am encouraged to take advantage of it. 

For me it's not the vacation days that help(although I did take a lot), it's being able to take random Fridays or days where you just need a break without worrying about going over days.
Beans
Big Shot
1
Enterprise Account Executive
It's a scam.

Makes the org look great, but creates this stigma of actually using it.

Also they don't owe you shit on the way out for saved days. 
TennisandSales
Politicker
1
Head Of Sales
I have unlimited PTO and its incredible. 

I have always said that this is THE best benefit.....if leadership doesnt fuck it up. 

I am on the flip side as you. I will not work anywhere where I dont have unlimited PTO. 

Im hitting my number, doing well, so I do what I want and its cool. 

anytime im taking a day or more off i put it on my calendar tag my boss in it and we are cool. 

Its crazy how nice it works when people trust other people to do their job. 
ajbuttler
Executive
1
Account Manager
Yes, because I set expectations that when I take approved PTO, I will be away from my computer and not available via Slack. #upfrontcontract 
samael404
Old School Bravo
1
Senior Sales Engineer
I generally have the same sentiments as you.  However, I think that whether or not it's actually honored is dependent on the company culture and can quickly change or be different depending on your direct managers and supervisors.   I also agree with the sentiments here on 'typical use'.  That's a minefield of perception that had not occurred to me until someone here brought it up.
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PTO

Discussion
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“Unlimited” PTO..?

Question
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PTO or $$&

Question
42
What incentives you more?
16% PTO
84% Money
140 people voted