swizard
Why are salespeople "not the most liked" ones for engineers/designers in tech companies?
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I think a number of sales people over promise to make sure they can meet the prospects' requirements. That leads to partners demanding more from engineers and designers.
Also, in an office setting, sales people are typically louder in the office. Doesn't normally mix well with a high focus job like engineering
Also, in an office setting, sales people are typically louder in the office. Doesn't normally mix well with a high focus job like engineering
I definitely second the over promise piece. Just don't do it. It tends to be the engineers who pay the price.
agreed
yup
Because we're usually dressed the best but know the least. I'd be pissed too if I had to watch us rake in the glory while the real work is being done by engineers.
80%+ of engineers can't sell shit just like nearly all of us can't engineer a damn thing.
hehe valid point! but I still prefer our job :D
Engineers LOVE being the smartest person in the room & it's gotta drive some nuts that sales reps make about twice what they make with half the education & skills/certification required.
Lots of sales reps lack empathy for their prospect or customer. Not a dig at any of us, simply the truth. Conversely, engineers and designers typically harbor empathy in their work due to the work they do and the outcomes they are driving (e.g. user experience). Thus, an oil and water relationship is formed before the first word is spoken.
If you want to improve your relationship with technical buyers, you need to develop a skillset that plays to that empathetic persona.
If you want to improve your relationship with technical buyers, you need to develop a skillset that plays to that empathetic persona.
Couldn't agree more!
Good point!
great point!
Because:
1) We're easy scapegoats. Always easy to blame sales when trying to deliver.
2) Customers will make up shit you promised them when they realized something isn't as they pictured. Additionally, some see it as a way to get concessions.
3) They've never done the job and don't know how hard it is
1) We're easy scapegoats. Always easy to blame sales when trying to deliver.
2) Customers will make up shit you promised them when they realized something isn't as they pictured. Additionally, some see it as a way to get concessions.
3) They've never done the job and don't know how hard it is
What do you mean by delivery teams?
specified it. In delivery teams I mean software engineers, designers other non-client-facing teams.
Thanks for clarifying! Personally, I have not experienced this, but I hope your engineer/ designers remember that teamwork makes the dreamwork
Depends on what level you engage internally too. For me, it has not been a pain point yet!
true
A few thoughts on this from a product person:
- Short-term revenue vs long-term strategy: Product teams (esp heads of product) tend to spend a lot of time thinking about what features are critical for long-term success. Often these features don't pay off dividends in the short term, which creates misaligned incentives, since salespeople are trying to hit revenue targets in the here and now. As a result, there's a tendency to think of salespeople as shortsighted, but in reality, a lot of the tension comes from inherent flaws built into the company org design.
- Solution-focused vs problem-focused: Sometimes salespeople frame their product feedback as solutions, e.g. "Can you just put this filter button here so the client will stop complaining?" Product people don't like being told exactly what to build (especially by non-Product people), and prefer to get feedback as a problem statement, e.g. "Customers are finding it hard to find these things when trial-ing the product", and from there, they have the freedom to figure out the best way to solve the problem.
- Quoting feature timelines without consulting product teams: This is pretty self-explanatory
In general, I've had the best experience with salespeople who treat PMs, designers, and engineers like true partners in helping come up with ideas that solve the customer's problem, as opposed to resources that exist to do their bidding.
- Short-term revenue vs long-term strategy: Product teams (esp heads of product) tend to spend a lot of time thinking about what features are critical for long-term success. Often these features don't pay off dividends in the short term, which creates misaligned incentives, since salespeople are trying to hit revenue targets in the here and now. As a result, there's a tendency to think of salespeople as shortsighted, but in reality, a lot of the tension comes from inherent flaws built into the company org design.
- Solution-focused vs problem-focused: Sometimes salespeople frame their product feedback as solutions, e.g. "Can you just put this filter button here so the client will stop complaining?" Product people don't like being told exactly what to build (especially by non-Product people), and prefer to get feedback as a problem statement, e.g. "Customers are finding it hard to find these things when trial-ing the product", and from there, they have the freedom to figure out the best way to solve the problem.
- Quoting feature timelines without consulting product teams: This is pretty self-explanatory
In general, I've had the best experience with salespeople who treat PMs, designers, and engineers like true partners in helping come up with ideas that solve the customer's problem, as opposed to resources that exist to do their bidding.
interesting. I've never heard the solution focused vs problem focused angle before. Thanks for sharing @lisa
I think that this is probably not always the case, but I think the judgment toward product vs. sales and the other way around can work for multiple debts (CS & Sales).
I would say the reason where there's friction in any role is because one side tends to overpromise something that may not be capable without involving others in the conversation. For example, overpromising something that hasn't been tested or delivered yet in the product roadmap. Additionally, reps may discount too much to get a deal over the line, while making it difficult for renewal or upsell later on.
I think on the flip side, engineers and designers may have a shallow view (not always) of how they believe the product should be used without talking to customers and letting a group of your most valuable customers test new products or features and giving you feedback on how THEY use it.
I would say the reason where there's friction in any role is because one side tends to overpromise something that may not be capable without involving others in the conversation. For example, overpromising something that hasn't been tested or delivered yet in the product roadmap. Additionally, reps may discount too much to get a deal over the line, while making it difficult for renewal or upsell later on.
I think on the flip side, engineers and designers may have a shallow view (not always) of how they believe the product should be used without talking to customers and letting a group of your most valuable customers test new products or features and giving you feedback on how THEY use it.
Because we're usually dressed the best but know the least. I'd be pissed too if I had to watch us rake in the glory while the real work is being done by engineers.
Because we're usually dressed the best but know the least.
I think there's two sides. Sales teams tend to think we know what the product roadmap should be since we're client facing. A lot of times that doesn't line up with what they want to do and creates friction.
Also the piece that sales is typically loud and engineers are the inverse. I've worked at company where the developers turn off all the lights and work in a literal cave. Imagine that being your happy place and you've got sales banging gongs, yellling all the time, etc.
Also the piece that sales is typically loud and engineers are the inverse. I've worked at company where the developers turn off all the lights and work in a literal cave. Imagine that being your happy place and you've got sales banging gongs, yellling all the time, etc.
I'd say it's differences in personalities that could impact this. And totally agree with the earlier comments where salespeople try and over promise what the product can do for their customers.
Because we are the most liked by everyone else. They jelly.
Difference in social skills...like having them
They just jealous cuz we're the coolest and make friends with almost everyone.
One thing I've noticed is that sales is one of the only departments that's actually held to quota/timelines. Can't tell you how many times I've heard "x feature was pushed out to Q3 instead of the planned date in Q2". All I hear when I'm relying on that feature to win a deal is "engineers didn't work hard enough to meet their deadline"
I know that's not always true but my quota as an AE doesn't change when they miss that deadline so sometimes it feels like nobody else is held to a firm timeline, which makes me less patient when dealing with engineers.
Since we're always fighting to hit quota, our interaction with engineers and marketing roles are more results driven. I think engineers think we take new features for granted & we never pat them on the back, just blame them when their feature doesn't work & impatiently look for solutions because that issue is hurting our number. Not much empathy or consideration for kinda shitting on a project they spent weeks/months working on.
I know that's not always true but my quota as an AE doesn't change when they miss that deadline so sometimes it feels like nobody else is held to a firm timeline, which makes me less patient when dealing with engineers.
Since we're always fighting to hit quota, our interaction with engineers and marketing roles are more results driven. I think engineers think we take new features for granted & we never pat them on the back, just blame them when their feature doesn't work & impatiently look for solutions because that issue is hurting our number. Not much empathy or consideration for kinda shitting on a project they spent weeks/months working on.
Oof. Probably because of the delicate balance between selling a good product as-is and the temptation to promise feature tweaks you know are coming down the pike.
Product is worse than marketing
This made me giggle 😆
Engineers don't realize how is to be a sales person in B2B. First off, they think it's easy but shitty job. They base their exp with salespeople from telecom/banking company who tried to push them to buy something/didn't listen etc.. And we know that in b2b the world is different, skillset needed is different, relationships with clients are different. Additionally, when you'll ask engineer what is doable in the product OR what do they know vs they don't know - they are very blunt about that. Becuase in their field either you know something or you don't - especially if tech person speaks to another tech person. FME the best way to earn their trust is to be educated in tech/IT - so they know that you know what they talk about and sec - show them that our work is not as easy as they think ;)
Being paid more can cause jealousy 🤷♂️
Team of 12, small start up, get on with everyone, been there 2.5 years but probably said about 11 words to the Tech lead. He just hates sales but won't say it. I personally think it's due to tech being happy to code and improve the product, marketing happily sending out shit and saying 'I did a campaign and got a 9% open rate which is great due to X Y and Z trust me I promise' but then sales bring in the customers which means more work for everyone.
I believe calling out of the blue to individuals who are usually introverts that don’t deal with many people because of their line of work get very annoyed that most of their interactions come from sales people they don’t know.
Product tries to push the "everything is just peachy" narrative while in sales I call them on their BS.
I don't sell vaporware nor will I make contractual obligations for future state development or roadmap items.
I don't sell vaporware nor will I make contractual obligations for future state development or roadmap items.
Usually it's because we end up finding more problems in our own product vs trying to help our customers with a new "solution."
Its because the engineers are litteraly tied to their product like an artist and their art. Sales comes in and give client feedback.
Because we're usually dressed the best but know the least. I'd be pissed too if I had to watch us rake in the glory while the real work is being done by engineers.
Crypto hell yes. Stocks definitely not unless it was shares of the organization I'm working at and it was a bonus that had nothing to do with my base.
Crypto hell yes. Stocks definitely not unless it was shares of the organization I'm working at and it was a bonus that had nothing to do with my base.
At first glance Engineers don't care for sales people because we tend to over promise/not understand the process or even product. None of this is true for me and my sales team.
Engineering fears us because we push them and know as much as them and maybe even more at a high level. Don't really care how it works on a granular level.
I tend to dominate a call and any engineer involved. I tell them what they can say to my customer. If they deviate from what I tell them they will not work with me or my team again.
Buck up and challenge those nerdy bastards, sales are just as capable of engineers. Fuck them and demonstrate your sales savagery.
Engineering fears us because we push them and know as much as them and maybe even more at a high level. Don't really care how it works on a granular level.
I tend to dominate a call and any engineer involved. I tell them what they can say to my customer. If they deviate from what I tell them they will not work with me or my team again.
Buck up and challenge those nerdy bastards, sales are just as capable of engineers. Fuck them and demonstrate your sales savagery.
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