Women

What up ladiessssss (and probably some nosey ass men)!

I've been told multiple times in sales roles that I have an AtTiUdE pRoBlEm when really it's just me sharing my thoughts on a situation and it not being reciprocated well. Each time it's also been a completely third party addressing me as opposed to the person who has the issue.

Anyone else have this happen? Tips for dealing or changing the situation?

And before anyone comes for me, I am a professional and do not get overly emotional and just lash out in these situations.
🙏 Mental Wellness
💆‍♂ Mindset
🤘 Personal Growth
24
Incognito
WR Officer
10
Master of Disaster
Confident women who are direct get one of two responses; either mad respect and a devotee for life or inner rage and sabotage because the men in charge don’t want to give up their advantage (and are hella insecure). 

The most success I’ve had is to ensure that you deliver whatever message you have with zero emotions attached. Straight up facts. Do not let their response deter you from your goal with this interaction. Stay cool and keep repeating facts until you can walk away satisfied with the outcome. Then be super nice and thank them, even if they’re throwing tantrums like a little bitch. 

As to gossip, I cut that shit off at the head. Someone talking about me? I immediately go up to them and ask what the deal is. Better if you can get everyone who is gossiping together. They never expect you to call them out. 

For sure you gotta set your reputation early, though. Make them understand that you’re cool, but you will 100% not hesitate to call bs. Even on yourself, if it’s warranted. 
CuriousFox
WR Officer
7
🦊
Exactly right. It's a shame.

The reason I said I'd answer next week isn't because I'm sad. I'm fucking drained.

So I'm spending this weekend getting my facts in order. In an easy timeline with pretty pictures and timestamps. Why am I going this far? Because unfortunately it's all too easy to be written off as "emotional" instead of listening and supporting their reps while trying to implement change. 

The data is going to be beautifully displayed in a concise PowerPoint for my one on one Friday.
Incognito
WR Officer
4
Master of Disaster
I have totally done this. I feel you so hard. ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Stardust
WR Officer
4
President
so true, so true.  Been dealing with this for decades and used to get pissed off.  Today, I have a couple of tools that work (for me).

1. Never take that smile off your face. The shittier they are and the worse the situation gets, the bigger the smile. It throws 'em off.

2. Always take the high road (sounds like you do this already) and always in the context of the customer or the company's goals, never in the context of you.

3. Get inside their head - where is their heart, where is their head (both of 'em).  Got to read them and know when they are being straight and when they're playing. Most are frickin' babies.  Mucho macho at work and &*(^^ whipped at home - seen it so many times, got their number.

4. Keep your friends close, your enemies even closer  (not mine, someone else's saying)

5. Deliver bad news as a sandwich - good news, bad news, good news

6. Always have a plan B, C, D. And that might mean never telling the whole story, keep some in reserve so you have political capital down the road, or able to continue to surprise them or outperform when they try to sabotage you.

7. Have a 'you' plan. what's your goal this year, next year - that's all you see and attain for. Once you achieve, move to the next and if it means moving companies, so be it. 

8. The biggest I've learned is unless the situation directly impacts my ability to achieve my personal goal - ignore it.  Yeah, the company is fucked, this that and the other is f-ed up. It's f-ed up b/c they like it that way.  So, let it go. Note it, can you live with it? How close are you to your next goal? Is there legal liability to you for their behavior?  Let it go, ignore it, and keep rocking your numbers. 

ON the last point, outspoken women get dragged into their shit years down the road. I've been subpoenaed in so many lawsuits that I had no role in b/c "she knew", "she had all the numbers", "she said something".  I was terrified the first time and pissed - and learned how 'ya'll don't want to put that one on the stand' ever (b/c she knows the dirt on BOTH sides). 

I might sound jaded. I'm not - just crystal clear on what I want to achieve and the path to get there.  

You GOT THIS!
Incognito
WR Officer
6
Master of Disaster
I fucking hope that every man in here reads these stories and realizes all of the extra effort women have to put in to be successful. It’s why @CuriousFox is exhausted. Im exhausted just reading your comment. 

early on in this job I was asked to make a list of things that would help me be more successful in my role (early in the pandemic, company was trying to navigate remote onboarding). My list was literally:

1. Have a penis
2. No seriously, if I had a penis it would be easier to navigate internally
3. Because dealing with sexism every day is exhausting 
4. imagine how much more productive I would be if I wasn’t cock blocked on every damned thing

Yes I sent it to my manager 
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
1
Account Executive
Can I upvote this a million times?!?! YES. I love the set your rep early call out- I think that was my biggest issue, it was all nice and sweet then boom, I was over it and confronted it. Also love the thought of thanking them, very reverse psychology and something I wouldn’t have thought of. Thank you!!!
Incognito
WR Officer
3
Master of Disaster
Don’t let these frat boys dull your shine. You worked twice as hard to get a seat at the table. 

no subtle sarcasm with the thank you either. Be 100% genuine. Even if they hate what you say, they gotta respect that.
Incognito
WR Officer
2
Master of Disaster
Also - it saddens me to see you add “I am a professional and do not get overly emotional and just lash out in these situations.”

because it plays into the stereotype that women are “emotional” and “irrational” for having an opinion. 

fuck that. 
CuriousFox
WR Officer
3
🦊
Big fuck that vibes 
Hudsonsmom
Opinionated
1
Area Sales Manager
THIS THIS THIS!!!!!!! Early on in my career, I had terrible managers who said similar things to me. In my yearly review I was told “you cuss too much for a girl, to get farther you need to stop”. Meanwhile my male counterparts cussed like sailors. We work in automotive, it’s grimy. Not to mention I was only speaking that was around coworkers, not around clients - NEVER. Flash to 6 years later, had the worlds best boss. Couldn’t be more supportive. I could say and do whatever I wanted and he’d support me through and through. Was my number one advocate because he saw what I could do. Unfortunately we’re either in one of those 2 situations in my experience. If you’re in the first you have to do what Incognito stated above
Maximas
Tycoon
1
Senior Sales Executive
HYG, Booming answer!!
jefe
Arsonist
0
🍁
It’s truly unfortunate that this is reality
UserNotFound
Politicker
6
Account Executive
The bane of my existence. Somehow women in sales are required to be assertive, decisive, well-researched, and able to manipulate a situation to our own gain with clients yet when we exhibit those same characteristics within our own organization it's "a bad attitude" or "negativity". 

I wish I knew how to deal with it better, but I'm honestly awful at it too. I'm a pendulum, I either fight tooth and nail to present my opinion/views on something I'm passionate about or I just 'fuck it' and keep quiet knowing the outcome is the same either way. 
Incognito
WR Officer
3
Master of Disaster
Fucking sucks, right? I’ve said this to high ranking dudes more than once, “you hired me because I’m not afraid to go after big named CEOs and not take no for an answer, so why do you act surprised that I’m not afraid to be direct with you?” 
CuriousFox
WR Officer
5
🦊
I'm completely over my male superiors after the last 3 days. I'll respond next week when I'm of clearer mind.
Incognito
WR Officer
2
Master of Disaster
♥️ *hugs* ♥️
CuriousFox
WR Officer
2
🦊
❤❤❤
Hudsonsmom
Opinionated
1
Area Sales Manager
Sorry about whatever you’re dealing with. It’s rough sometimes. Hang in there ❤️
CuriousFox
WR Officer
0
🦊
It's all good. I've made a solution to the issues from last week and will present it this Friday. Last week was simply a rough one.
CadenceCombat
Tycoon
5
Account Executive
Also, very random observation here but how does @SalesGal feel about the existence of @CharmingSalesGal?

I’m just picturing an inbound lead calling in:

“Thanks for calling ABC company, I’d be happy to transfer you to our sales team. Would you prefer to be connected to @SalesGal or @CharmingSalesGal ?”

”Um, how big of a charm delta are we talking about here between the two?”
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
3
Account Executive
HAHA I never knew there was a SalesGal but maybe we could be best friends. I’ve been described a lot of ways in sales, charming just being the most recent. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
SalesGal
Politicker
2
Account Executive
I hadn’t realised there was a @CharmingSalesGal but I suddenly find myself doubting my own level of charm… :(
UrAssIsSaaS
Arsonist
4
SaaS Eater
My GF is hands down the best sales person (and now sales leader) I have ever seen operate, but she ran into these exact issues as well early in her career. Shes from the east coast and is super direct which can rub people the wrong way in SF. When she has been put in these situations and is frustrated she just takes a step back, aligns the facts and tells the story with a smile on her face. Things usually turn out pretty well for her when she handles it like this. 
CadenceCombat
Tycoon
3
Account Executive
Not looking to hijack your thread or anything. This post is totally valid.

Just thought you might appreciate and relate with some of the comments here: <removed post>
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
2
Account Executive
Yes!! Thank you for sharing, I’m on my phone right now and there isn’t a search bar on the app yet.
MontBlanc
Notable Contributor
3
Senior Account Executive
Here's a snippet I pulled from a performance review I got in 2019 as a male BDR (I keep it to use as motivation).

"However, there is numerous feedback detailing ways in which him putting himself above others in the workplace. Examples include: 
- Coming across condescending 
- Spending more time trying to express his option, rather than listen 
- Spending more time listening to suggestions rather than giving them 
- Not going above and beyond for the success of the team"


Excusing the poor grammar and hilarious contradiction of lines 2-3, I believe what they were trying to tell me is that I had something along the lines of an attitude problem. And to a degree they were right.

What I learned from my experience at that company was that being right is pretty meaningless if nobody likes you... It's tough to balance this especially if you're dealing with a situation where your superiors are incompetent. 

All in all, it sounds like you're likely not in the best situation or are not a great culture fit for your current company. My advice would be to just avoid confrontation with the people giving you this feedback and try to build back your reputation by being helpful. 

Or do what I did and just leave for an AE job after they put you on PiP :)
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
1
Account Executive
Wowwwwww, confusing feedback! I’m no longer with the company thankfully and each convo I had like this were each nails in the coffin each time- I think it was definitely a cliquey environment too so didn’t matter what I said because those cliques had more control than me alone.
MontBlanc
Notable Contributor
1
Senior Account Executive
Yeah cliques and office gossip sucks, glad you're out of that situation
draculina
Fire Starter
3
process development specialist
It sucks that we as women have to go through this. Tbf, it'd be ok for me even if you had an attitude problem or got cocky. If you deserve it, it's totally fine. 

My advice would be -- be nice to other people. You probably already are a nice person, but I mean in the "small acts of kindness" way. Around the office, be the person who asks about people's day, their kids/pets if they have them, if you know about a hobby of theirs or an interest, ask about it etc. I kept a drawer full of sweets so that I could walk around and offer everyone some. Helping others (without burdening yourself) is also amazing for this.

This is to crush all the talk about "an attitude problem". When a complainer mentions this, other people will be like "really? she's a really nice person though!" The complainer will have less credibility. "Oh *she's* harsh? She was really nice when she helped me with X!" 

Your managers/third parties suck. I say this as someone whose own parents gave her feedback on "but you get too angry when someone asks a simple question!". My manager framed the same feedback in a way that still resonates with me. He also encouraged me to get aggressive when it was necessary. I proved I was good enough to go toe to toe with a lot of people who were way above my paygrade, and since I was nice otherwise, people tended to overlook my rolled eyes most of the time :)
aiko
Politicker
1
Sr. Account Executive
I honestly wish I had more of an attitude. I’m good at sales, but I could be better with speaking up more. It bothers me so much when mediocre reps on my floor complain about petty situations and end up getting their way.
Finesy
Valued Contributor
1
Account Representative III
I’m a woman. I share my thoughts with no problem and as far as I can remember haven’t gotten any flak for it. The only time I get pushback is from other women. Sharing your thoughts isn’t the problem. I’m thinking it’s your approach.
Blackwargreymon
Politicker
1
MDR
For sure you gotta set your reputation early, though. 
hurtscuzimold
Opinionated
0
Dude abiding
As a man I know someones “attitude problem” is more likely a problem or a consequence of my own. 

but I’ve learned this the hard way. 
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
0
Account Executive
“You should probably just do everyone’s laundry here and make yourself useful.” - @Feds_Watchin 
Feds_Watchin
Politicker
-1
AE
Every option in your poll could have been construed as stereotypical “women’s work”. This isn’t the 1950s. The best sellers I know are women because they are relentless. The cream of the crop embrace the chip on their shoulder and don’t succumb to the snakes in the grass. The real gems are unflappable. Keep your mouth shut and sell and people won’t question your attitude.
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
0
Account Executive
Dear God dude, stop engaging with my posts with your misogynistic backhanded compliments.
Clashingsoulsspell
Politicker
0
ISR
Only perk I liked was the beer/wine/cold brew on tap. The rest was trash.
Error32
Politicker
0
ISR
Amen to this. Let’s talk about money and benefits. Save the money on candy and up the match in the 401K
AnchorPoint
Politicker
0
Business Coach
"Multiple times" ... might need to take a better look in the mirror...
paddy
WR Officer
-2
Director of Business Development
I'm confused. Did you have an attitude or not? 
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
1
Account Executive
No, I brought up a well talked about issue to someone who had a say in fixing it when no one else would bring it up to them.
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
1
Account Executive
Now that I read my post back, I do get the confusion. Mainly getting at, why is it me having an attitude problem for addressing an issue instead of just gossiping about it? And I ask the women because I’ve never once heard of a male colleague being told that they have an attitude problem… I could be wrong there though?
paddy
WR Officer
2
Director of Business Development
I have no idea what the context of the issue was or anything. All I can say is if you get this feedback quite often then maybe time to re-evaluate? Not to be a dick here but like it's hard to give an answer with the little info you provided.
Incognito
WR Officer
4
Master of Disaster
You’re being a dick because you have a dick. I completely understand where @CharmingSalesGal is coming from. You’ve probably never had to deal with these kinds of things. 
UserNotFound
Politicker
3
Account Executive
@Incognito thank you for always saying what the rest of us are thinking!
UserNotFound
Politicker
6
Account Executive
@paddy one of my favorite examples of the type of "attitude" thing women deal with that many men dont recognize is my own experience of being pregnant. 7 weeks from my due date and we have a planning session to address how my clients will be supported in my absence and the HR (yes, HR) person asks me when I'll start maternity leave, and I respond with 'when I go into labor' and the response is "unless you develop a bad attitude, then we'll go ahead and start you early" on an unpaid maternity leave. 

Women's woman-hood is weaponized against us constantly in the professional environment, and used as a way to dismiss our thoughts, feelings, opinions, and so on. 
Incognito
WR Officer
5
Master of Disaster
Haha yeah. Too much sometimes - I’ve often joked that I need “brevity is the soul of wit” tattooed on my forehead. 

On the flip side, I personally worked for a well known CEO billionaire for like 7 years. I had only one performance review, and that was at the end of my first year. He said, “you know, incognito, you’re really excellent at what you do, but the feedback I’m getting is that you’re a bit of a bitch”. To which I replied, “I’m a 5’3” woman in a position of power over a lot of men - especially ones in trades with different cultures. They better be fucking terrified.” 

He thought about that for a minute, then said, “you’re right. Carry on. Good job” and handed me like $10k in cash. 
CharmingSalesGal
Politicker
2
Account Executive
That’s the kind of shit we need to hear more of!!! Love it
Incognito
WR Officer
3
Master of Disaster
I was very lucky that this man was not sexist in the least, and had mad respect for strong women. Many people can’t work with him because he is a bit of a bull himself (all the dudes at that level are), but you can’t intimidate me so we got along very well. I would still be working for him if he hadn’t decided to shut that company down for personal reasons. 
10

Any women in this group?

Question
15
Representation in sales is
46% I'm a guy
54% I'm a gal
0% I'm non-binary
54 people voted
47
Members only

Getting out of the echo-chamber: Women in Sales Stories

Question
82