Story time. Recruiters: pay attention.

Read this whole thing.


It all started 3 weeks ago. A recruiter from a fast-growing and highly awarded cyber security startup reaches out to me about becoming their SalesOps leader. I was hesitant at first, as I am in a good spot with my current company...but after reading about the team and the position in the market, I could not say no. Thus began the 8-hour recruiting process that ended in quite possibly the most perplexing turn of events I've experienced in my career. First interview: 10/29/21


When you're interviewing for management (non-exec) level roles within startups that have fewer than 100 employees, you tend to talk to a lot of stakeholders to ensure you are a culture and performance fit. I spoke with the CSO (3 times), VP of People, VP of BizOps, VP of Partnerships, Sr. Director of Marketing, and the Director of Sales and their brand new Head of Talent. Each call lasted 30-45 minutes and went through the typical work. I even produced a full document that outlined forecasting methodologies, comp plan structuring options, etc, to showcase my skill set. First red flag: I could hear the "screenshot sound" that macs make during my presentation, and even called out the CSO in a coy way with an "I don't mind sending this to you so you can have the whole thing".


Every call ended with mutual buy-in. I was buzzing to join this company after each conversation, and the feeling was clearly mutual when we ended up with a verbal offer to join the firm on 11/11/21. This is when the second red flag appeared: they didn't have the offer document ready, claiming that HR (located in Europe) would have to handle final approval. Usually the verbal is the precursor to hitting "send" on that offer email. Strange...


Fine, I get it, and again I am in a role now and am not in a rush. The document was to be in my inbox by this past Monday (11/15/21) at 9 am EST. Did not arrive, so I called up my recruiter. They said the CEO was taking his time on approval and would have it done by end of that day. They reconfirmed my salary AGAIN, which was the 3rd red flag. Why do we keep talking about my comp when we have gone over it 3-4 times already and its' been "in the budget" every time?


Nothing comes 11/15, 11/16, 11/17...but the CSO starts texting me that I am good and will need to be patient while the board meets on it. WHY IS THE BOARD INVOLVED?


Then yesterday comes around. At 9:30 I get a call from the CSO...I'm thinking it's to reaffirm the offer and get me excited. Nope. I hear this: "PBC, I love your background. It fits everything the US-based team needs, but the European team (execs) are asking us to shut the process down. They looked at your background again, and after chatting with the board, have decided that you made too many moves in your career and they feel you are going to be a liability. Thanks for teaching us about how we need to be better about the process and what requirements we have. Wish you all the best." and doesn't give me much time for rebuttal. We hang up, I rage scream into a pillow and have been stewing ever since.


So, here's my question to all of you. Should I send them a bill for my hourly consulting rate x 8 hours? They jerked me around for 3 weeks and then dumped me on the curb after they got all my IP...they owe me, right?

🤝 Interviewing/Offer
37
FormerStartupJobHopper
Tycoon
22
AE
Holy shit. Yeah that's bad. I'm like at a 4/10 angry for you right now so if it was me, I'm at at least 10/10 and fuck yeah I'm sending that email lol. I'm gonna write it for fun cause I love this stuff:

Team,

I really did appreciate the chance to collaborate with you all and was excited to come work at X. If I'm being frank, which I always strive to be, the process I was put through left a lot to be desired. In my capacity as a hiring manager, I never put a candidate through 8 hours of in depth customized consulting, and/or extend multiple verbal offers without the buy in of all the necessary decision makers.

As to the objection from your European leadership team, I strongly disagree, but they have the right to their opinion. My frustration here is that you didn't run my background by them before the extensive work I put in and verbal offers were extended.

My hourly rate as a sales operations consultant is $200 per hour, to account for the fact that to do side work, it needs to be above and beyond what I make at my day job to be worth my time. 

While this would amount to a $1,600 bill, in the spirit of forgiveness, and to account for the fact that we thought I'd be coming on board, I'm willing to apply a $600/38% discount with payment by 5 pm EST Wed 11/24. This will come out to a total of $1,000. 

Please let me know if there is a contact I should send this to in accounts payable.

Sincerely,

Powered By Caffeine
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
11
☕️
You are the GOAT.
UserNotFound
Politicker
5
Account Executive
Please do it, and also out whatever shit-show of a company this is. 


Incognito
WR Officer
4
Master of Disaster
Fuck. Yes. 
jefe
Arsonist
2
🍁
SAVAGE. EFFIN LOVE IT
pizzasavage
Contributor
0
Account Executive, Partner/Client Success
SAVAGE. If it's ok I would like to use this. The near exact thing has just happened to me twice, "verbal offer" -this type of behavior is abusive and can cause PTSD in job searching and interviewing. I am sorry they were so wrong on this.
FormerStartupJobHopper
Tycoon
0
AE
Yeah man by all means haha
TheQueenofDiamonds
Politicker
0
Account Executive
This is awesome!!!!! 
CoorsKing
WR Officer
20
Retired King of the Coors Knights
I would absolutely send them a bill, especially since they took screenshots of your methodology you had presented for possible implementation by YOU upon hire. If the Europe team had that much weight, why were they not the ones interviewing? Something seems off about that. I wonder how many other screenshots that CSO has…
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
9
☕️
The GTM team lives in the US, but their CEO/CTO are based in Europe. Silent Talent Partners can get fucked.
jefe
Arsonist
1
🍁
Agreed. Screenshot was the nail in the coffin..

Also - whole load of BS all around.
funcoupons
WR Officer
13
👑
Reading this fills me with hot rage...I need a cold shower.

But seriously, this is a pile of soggy garbage. Send them that invoice and instead of sealing the envelope with a lipstick kiss send them a polaroid of your ass and include a tube of lipstick, directing them to kiss it.
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
6
☕️
In the words of Deesus and Mero, aka the Bodega Boys: "Suck my dick from the back"
justatopproducer
Politicker
3
VP OF SALES -US
No kidding i cant read anymore
CuriousFox
WR Officer
10
🦊
"Read this whole thing." ☠

You could send a nice follow up/recap email with the bill as an attachment. Oh look he's so nice then BAM mother trucker!

Sucks. 
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
8
☕️
LOVE that. "Thanks for everything. Also, please find my invoice attached. Payable by check."
CuriousFox
WR Officer
8
🦊
Or Venmo.
braintank
Politicker
6
Enterprise Account Executive
Yes. And name and shame so otters can avoid!
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
12
☕️
Otters unite!
funcoupons
WR Officer
9
👑
Otters hold hands with their favourite otter when they sleep so they don't drift apart in the water.... <3 

They also literally rape other animals, so there's that. 
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
7
☕️
In Otter News: they be cute and violent.
braintank
Politicker
5
Enterprise Account Executive
Thought about making an edit... But this is too good to change.
Donutpanda
Executive
1
Enterprise Account Executive
Otters unite !!!
TheOverTaker
Politicker
4
Senior Account Executive
there is nothing worse than that feeling. When I was fresh outta college and still looking to work in ad/pr (LOL) I always had to write "mock blogs, mock tweets, etc." No job ever materialized but I often saw similar tweets and blogs to mine posted. 

fuck them
Mobi85
Politicker
4
Regional Sales Manager
That is some absolute BS, for sure send them an invoice for your time spent and I would also recommend visiting www.shitexpress.com or poopsenders.com and get them a nice gift for wasting your time. 
CaneWolf
Politicker
4
Call me what you want, just sign the damn contract
I don't think a bill here is outrageous at all. That's absurd. You clearly dodged a bullet not working there though.

Out of curiosity, why didn't you stop the process after the  screenshot of your work?
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
6
☕️
The CRO and I vibed, and I was certain we'd be working together. I even offered to share it with them before the call started, so it's not skin off my back. What the captured is useless without the person who can implement it...never show all your cards.

Sunbunny31
Politicker
3
Sr Sales Executive 🐰
That is really, really bad.   All I can offer is an "I'm sorry" because there's an awesome email already by FormerStartupJobHopper that I don't think can be topped.
SaaSam
Politicker
3
Account Executive
Not only send a bill for your time but also for that screenshot of proprietary information that was given contingent upon your employment.  
justatopproducer
Politicker
3
VP OF SALES -US
Send them a bill, absolutely. With interest and I would also ask to see their books to ensure they can afford it. Based on how you saw them conduct business thus far id be weary the check would clear.
Gottapumpthosenumbers
Opinionated
2
Biz Dev
Oof. Sympathies, friend. That's the fucking worst. I've been in two situations like this. One, I went though the whole process like you (didn't get the yob, shocker), and the other I was wise enough and asked them for a consulting fee before divulging my ideas and execution strategy. They told me that they wanted someone willing to contribute to the team and ended my interview process lol. It's taught me that the true red flag is when a company starts asking you to solve their problems during the interview process.

If there's any practical part of the interview process that involves you solving an issue that seems super pertinent to the business, call that shit out. It's a big red flag.

But yeah, you should totally send them an invoice. Fucking legend lol
TheQueenofDiamonds
Politicker
2
Account Executive
This is beyond frustrating, so sorry !!!! 
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
4
☕️
#Life
Diablo
Politicker
1
Sr. AE
One thing I liked is you teaching them something they didn't know. Who know they might recommend your name tomorrow to their networks.
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
6
☕️
I wish I wasn't their lesson, because I didn't gain anything from it.
pirate
Big Shot
1
🦜☠️ Account Executive
Awful to read.Why would CSO be the one calling the shots for SalesOps role? It kind of seems they are screwing up everything there so definitely send a bill! Maybe approach their top competitor with all the IP you have
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
5
☕️
Very common for Sales/RevOps to fall under the CSO or VP of Sales at early-stage startups. My goal is to be a COO, so it's easier to start somewhere else in org and build it into its own world.
pirate
Big Shot
1
🦜☠️ Account Executive
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying. I was curious. COO sounds good and I'm sure you'll get that soon ⭐
washedD1soccer
Politicker
1
Regional Sales Manager
At least send them a box full of exploding glitter to their main office and put a “thanks for having me interview, here’s a treat” note on top.
FinanceEngineer
Politicker
1
Sr Director, sales and partnerships
Funny enough, in fintech start-up recruiting, the interviewing to take IP on how to do things is really common. It's a pain in the ass, but send them a bill
GDO
Politicker
1
BDM
Just send a bill. What happens happens
keepitsimple
1
Co-Founder and CEO
I hope you know how lucky you are by not going to work at that shithole. If that’s how they behave during the interview process, could you imagine working there?
KPIMaster
Politicker
1
Enterprise Account Executive
What company is this so I know to never apply/respond to recruiters?  Also, I know this is the "best job market" for employees ever, but these sales interview processes have gone off the rails at every level.  Shit is very annoying, sucks you got burned this way.
3

I love my job- should I stop talking to recruiters?

Question
6
3

When you have your LinkedIn account set to "open to work" and recruiters reach out all the time do you take the mindset of "I need to sell myself for this role" OR "The recruiter needs to sell the role to myself?"

Discussion
14