CRM Vultures and shitty management.

This is mostly me venting, but here goes in case it's of any use to anyone either in managment, in sales, or helps when you are interviewing your next job interviewer.


Key point: I have 2 product lines, let's call them A and B. For product A there are no defined sales territories, it's a free-for-all. For product B there are clearly defined geographical sales territories.


I have a specific colleague that has pulled the rug out from under me twice on deals totally around $1.3M for product A, where I did the following groundwork:

Identify the company, multithread to contact several people, meet with them, do all the discovery and help to turn the lightbulb on in their heads that tells them they need/want our solution. Then I prepare a quote. That project doesn't go ahead, but it was obvious we would be talking again the next time a possible need arose. Then this guy swoops in, at most he adds one contact to the CRM within the account, draws up a proposal (5 minutes work), gets the order and lands a nice fat commission cheque.


He's now trying to do it a third time, this time without adding any extra contacts to the CRM.


I didn't protest the first two times it happened, but when I found out he is trying to angle in on this third deal I brought all three cases up with management, afterall it's their job to sort this shit out. All the notes are in the CRM with timestamps so it's easy to see who did the ground work & when, compared to who just drew up a proposal in 5 minutes and wants to snag the commission.


As a result of bringing these 3 cases up with the sales director and explaining how events have unfolded, he tells the regional VP this latest deal belongs to me and the other sales person should refer the buyer back to me.


I suspect the regional VP "dances around" the difficult conversations and was not clear in communicating the sales directors decision to my sales colleague, because a few months later my colleague is still issuing quotes to the prospective buyer. Best case scenario is that the VP needs to grow a pair and do his job better, worst case scenario is that my colleague is ignoring direct orders to leave the deal in my hands. I don't know which of these is worse.


In a separate meeting with the sales director and the company M.D. I mentioned a new account (for product B) in my colleagues territory that would practically land in my lap, but I said I would pass it along to him because it's in his geographical territory. Management say "why should you pass it along to him if he didn't do any work to sign up the account? It should be yours" - This was a red flag for me. As far as I'm concerned, letting me have this new account (for product B where it is clearly in my colleagues geographical territory) would be moving the goal posts and changing the rules in the middle of the game without consulting all of the parties involved. I am an ethical person and would feel uneasy accepting it. I'm also pretty sure it would piss at least one of my colleagues off and damage overall team spirit.


Management can choose to encourage a team atmosphere, or they can pitch co-workers against each other. I personally think teams have enough competition from outside the company without having things go "cut-throat" inside the company as well.


I went to bed rather angry last night, hardly slept and woke up around 5am thismorning, all the time milling over the options available to me.

I've managed to calm down and am contemplating my options.

My first course of action will be to ask mangament to specify what kind of atmosphere they want amongst the sales team and how they intend to create it.

If it's going to be no holes barred, every man for himself then I think I'll start looking for a new position elsewhere probably whilst ceasing to respect the georaphical territory of the aforementioned colleague. I'm not talking about actively going after his accounts, but definitely not passing along new ones.

Or do you think I am missing something here?

💰 Compensation
🧢 Sales Management
😤 Conflict Resolution
10
CadenceCombat
Tycoon
6
Account Executive
It’s this type of shit that would flip a switch inside me and land me in jail.
CuriousFox
WR Officer
2
🦊
I think you'd be a top flight gang leader in prison.
CadenceCombat
Tycoon
2
Account Executive
They call me The Raven.
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
4
☕️
Did you confront your colleague directly when the first two happened?
TheHypnotist
Executive
1
Sales Manager
I did, but policies are not in place to avoid this this type of situation and it is not my job to do so. I have since thought about proposing a 4 way call (me, colleague, VP and sales director) to sort this shit out. Quite frankly if I have to make this type of call then I am underpaid and doing someone else’s job. This is still a fed flag for me.
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
2
☕️
Your VP and any Sales Ops leaders need a backstop in the form of proper Rules of Engagement based on time since last activity in the account. If that does not exist, then your entire company is doomed to endure pain.

If that doesn’t work, be a badger and go after the other reps lunch. Show them what it feels like to lose cash based on the tactics they’ve been dishing.
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
No, I reported it to management without crying about it. When the third case arose I took it to the regional VP who chickened out of having the grown up conversation with the other rep. I then took matters to the sales director who spoke with the VP and told him to sort this out. That was a couple of months ago but the VP clearly has not drawn a clear enough line in the sand.
poweredbycaffeine
WR Lieutenant
3
☕️
Did you reply to my comment twice?

It’s of crying. It’s demanding that a standard business practice is implemented to set strong rules of engagement.
oldcloser
Arsonist
3
💀
This ain’t gonna be the popular take. But how are you leaving what seems like gaping opportunities for your shadowers to pounce on? Something in your process that isn’t air tight? I’m not justifying any of that poaching. But if you’re leaving holes and nobody’s watching. Something or someone is gonna fill them.
braintank
Politicker
1
Enterprise Account Executive
+1 Evasive answer when asked how long between original opp and close
oldcloser
Arsonist
1
💀
Bing- and to spin this even worse for OP - maybe management, while clearly lacking documented rules, might just be letting it be because they know there’s lack of timely follow up.

If you’re sitting at the poker table and you can’t figure out who the weakest player in the game is. Chances are it’s you.
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
The time from opp arising to closing varies. It is generally at least six months and may take up to 5 or 6 years. This particular opp was generated by me in 2020 and could not close at least until July this year due to the end users budgetary restrictions. The end user is a government entity that I talked to directly. They have to put the purchase out to tender and cannot buy directly from us so we knew that upon publishing the tender at least 2 companies (both of which I also talked to) would request pricing.
A marketing email was sent out which one of these companies replied to. The lead was then passed to my colleague because neither the marketing manager nor my colleague knew anything about the deal in progress. In the CRM I entered the details of all of the companies years ago (they can be seen to be “my account” so to speak). The company making the enquiry now is only enquiring because I put the groundwork in with the end user and the tender is tailored to our solution.
In an opp like this where one sales person puts in all the “selling work” prior to the tender process, it doesn’t seem fair that once it has been put out to tender, it can turn into a lottery to decide which sales person gets the commission.
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
With respect, I have flagged up the potential for these messy situations with management in the past but management seems to be making it up as they go along.
It is not my job to lay down the ground rules to prevent this type of situation arising.
I have passed numerous opps along to colleagues (including this poacher) when I am under no obligation to do so.
Revenue_Rambo
Politicker
2
Director, Revenue Enablement
The scenarios you are talking about should all be clearly defined in a written Rules of Engagement document.

For example:

What determines account ownership? (activity)
What is defined as activity?

How to route leads? (ie a prospect you’ve been working inbounds via chat on your website)

When does ownership end or transfer? (how much time needs to lapse between activities to no longer be considered your account)


If none of this is defined you are just out of luck and it’s time to become a sales pirate and pillage the pipeline of everyone especially this DBag.
Pachacuti
Politicker
2
They call me Daddy, Sales Daddy
@TheHypnotist have you tried the “email CC” tactic where you send an email about the account to a manager and copy EVERYONE including the other rep in question. Create the paper trail so you can refer back to and there is no question later.

Send an email to your SD saying “ as per our conversation, i have been working X account for the last many months and it is mine to continue to work…”

Good luck!
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
I think I’ll do this - an email on all current deals so no-one can claim ignorance later down the line.
Thanks!
braintank
Politicker
1
Enterprise Account Executive
How much time is there between when you present your proposal and your colleague swoops in?
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
A VERY valid question. This case is more complex than the usual “abandoned crm opportunity” because of covid stalling pipeline in 2020, then the company launching a new model in 2022, plus the VP was “assisting” in this case, but he issued a quote instead of referring back to me. The result is a colossal clusterfuck with 3 salespeople involved in the same opportunity but triplication of pipeline in the CRM. There were a number of reasons for delays in bring the deal to a fruitful close, but none of those reasons were due to abandonment or failing to do my job
braintank
Politicker
0
Enterprise Account Executive
So how long?
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
Sales cycle varies between 6 months and 6 years.
He has jumped in at different times:
- a few weeks
- 2 years
- in this latest case a couple of months
saaskicker
Celebrated Contributor
1
Enterprise AE
you need to manage your open opportunities better. you don't get to hold on to anything more than 1-2 quarters in most places. if he came in and you hadn't done the proper check in for 2 years, that's on you. a few weeks is frustrating i'll give you that, but if there's dollars on the table best believe i have an email or call scheduled with them on a weekly/bi-weekly basis to check in on something.
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
Contacting prospects that frequently regarding an open opportunity in my industry would turn you into a nuisance extremely quickly. Can you imagine someone chasing you up every week/fortnight/month for several years?
saaskicker
Celebrated Contributor
2
Enterprise AE
can you provide value? doesn't have to be a nuisance. i'd rather check in and say how are the kids, how's X project that's before Y project coming along etc etc. Can you imagine losing 6 figure deals because you didn't do that for months or YEARS?
braintank
Politicker
1
Enterprise Account Executive
💯
Send them an article, ask if they're going to an event, check in on personal stuff, etc.
Justatitle
Big Shot
1
Account Executive
Venting is always welcome here
Kosta_Konfucius
Politicker
0
Sales Rep
So basically a territory is meaningless
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
This is a conversation I need to have with management.
GDO
Politicker
0
BDM
why did they say yes to him and not to you?

BTW yes it's an asshole move.

We have a determined time of x months after a convo that nobody can reach out. You can protect the free for all prospects by speaking them every time within that protection period.
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
It wasn’t that they said no to me and yes to him. Case 1 - I put in the groundwork. Then at a tradeshow a new employee walks onto our booth and the first person they talk to was my colleague (I was previously messaging the new employee and asked him to drop by the show). My colleague gets talking to him and starts working the deal. If it hadn’t been for my initial work, I don’t think they would have considered us at all. I didn’t make a fuss over this one because it was pot luck that my colleague was the one who got to meet that guy first.

Case 2 - I did all the work of prospecting, cold calling, multithreading, having teams meetings, discovery and effectively selling the prospects on our solution. They had a project which didn’t go ahead so they didn’t purchase at that time. I knew it was a question of time until they would buy. I’m guessing a new project came up and they enquired via our or 800 number and the lead was funneled to my colleague. No notes from him on the CRM, just a quote and bam, he gets the sale. That is not how it works in our industry/company. I still have to find out what happened in this case.

Case 3 - explained above. A simple case of a marketing email which my account answered and it was wrongly funneled to my colleague who refused to desist even when told I was already working the deal.
GDO
Politicker
0
BDM
Case 1 is indeed bad luck

Case 2&3 are just bad! Why would t they give you the prospect after they reach back out?

Do you have a SM that distributes inbound leads? You already have a relationship with them so you should get it.
TheHypnotist
Executive
0
Sales Manager
I was talking to the sales director a few days ago and told him we need to have a chat next week when we are both back at work (I’m on vacation).
Rules of engagement need to be established, and criteria for ensuring we don’t duplicate opportunities in the CRM or have several employees unwittingly working the same deal because it creates a mess internally, wastes salaries and can make the company look bad in front of customers, not to mention the negative impact on team spirit.
We also need to have some sort of criteria in place to determine how inbound leads are funneled.
My hope is that management can learn from this and avoid it happening again (to anyone in the company) again.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
GDO
Politicker
1
BDM
Well done!
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