bdiggidy profile picture
bdiggidy profile picture

bdiggidy

Account Executive Mid-Market

Opinionated
Executive
Valued Contributor
+4

Is sales management untouchable?

talking to a friend yesterday and had sort of an eye opening conversation. 

in both of our experience- as an IC there is always the potential for a PIP if you're underperforming consistently. it's typically part of the job to perform and together we've seen many people under perform, put on a PIP and some even be let go for under performance. 

neither of us have ever seen this happen with middle management. with our collective almost 10 years in SaaS sales we've both seen teams under perform consistently, with the same sales manager but the IC's are always the ones getting PIP'd is this just us or has anybody else noticed this?

why is this? 

in my experience, a strong manager can make a major impact on a Rep/ team so why isn't it similar to sports where a coach is replaced before players? 

interested to hear thoughts or if we're just cooked 😂
☁️ Software Tech
15

18 comments

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LordOfWar
Tycoon
6
Blow it up
I've seen sales management get canned before, but it was usuallythem being used as a scapegoat for other issues beyond their control and not due to them being particularly bad leaders.
antiASKHOLE
Tycoon
5
Bravado's Resident Asshole
Come to think of it... I have never seen this either. You just broke the system.
nomdeguerre
Executive
5
Account executive
Middle management has someone to blame. i.e. you, when their boss comes down on them for lack of results.

That’s why they always want to have one or two under performing team members. Because they will be easy scapegoats when the problem arise.

As an IC you have nobody to blame, you can’t blame your SDR because you’ll get told that you should have coached them and generated your own pipeline. You can’t blame your boss, because you know he or she is your boss. So, basically your screwed.

They’ll throw you under the bus keep their job and hire a new AE.
bdiggidy
Opinionated
0
Account Executive Mid-Market
Totally agree. But if the team consistently underperforms and replaces reps (which I’ve actually seen happen) there’s only one common denominator
nomdeguerre
Executive
0
Account executive
Doesn’t seem to matter. Also, keep in mind that the middle manager might be in control of his tasks and actions. Frequently they are dictated by upper management and your middle manager might have the same complaint as you. The upper management might have the same complaint about their boss, but rarely do the fire the CEO/founder/owner. Shit rolls downhill.
BadColdCaller
Politicker
1
Account Executive
Adding on to that too, it'll take a long time for someone to detect the common denominator behind a manager's team failing, and that's enough time for them to jump ship off to somewhere else
nomdeguerre
Executive
2
Account executive
Exactly, they’ll have plenty of time to detect when the ground starts burning under their feet to go out and find something else.
Werkzeug
Politicker
2
Account Executive
off to somewhere else for a raise and promotion, no doubt.
CuriousFox
WR Officer
4
🦊
Oh damn. I haven't thought about that. 🤔

On the flip side during acquisitions that level is usually first to go 🤷‍♀️
bdiggidy
Opinionated
1
Account Executive Mid-Market
Yes but that’s not performance based I feel like that’s more redundancy based
jefe
Arsonist
3
🍁
I haven't seen anyone PIP'd but I've seen them let go.

With much less frequency though - it's harder to pin blame on them given there's multiple people underneath.
Sunbunny31
Politicker
2
Sr Sales Executive 🐰
I've seen many sales managers get "moved on". Unfortunately, it's usually after they lose team members - either to PIP or jumping because the manager is intolerable. It's the layer just above that does more damage and doesn't seem to be affected.
Gasty
Notable Contributor
2
War Room Community Manager
Yep. Being a part of a similar middle management for quite a while, I can tell you some brutal truths:

- It's easier for upper management to have 1 single neck to grab (the middle manager)
- They're usually underpaid and so it's a good ROI for the firm
- Many of them are hired just to get the whims and desires of the real management fulfilled via the foot-soldiers (AE's / SDRs)
- Real management doesn't want to their image to be tainted. So they hire an idiot who's ready to get theirs.
Kosta_Konfucius
Politicker
1
Sales Rep
I had a sales manager get fired, it’s a lot tougher because they have someone to blame. Which usually means a couple reps will get fired first
Mobi85
Politicker
1
Regional Sales Manager
It seems there are many more hoops to jump through with canning someone in middle management but have seen it happen before. The times I have seen it, it typically revolved around multiple missed quarters/years of missed quota and a lot of documentation.
DungeonsNDemos
Big Shot
0
Rolling 20's all day
Because they are the ones driving the bus.. unfortunately.
RomyJax2020
Valued Contributor
0
Enterprise Sales Dev
I don’t think they get PIPs, but I do know they get fired lol
PineappleYa
Opinionated
0
AE
They will kill off the full team first to see if its the team or mgr usually

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