KermitdaFrog

Account Executive

Valued Contributor

Is this a fair PIP?

my BDR is getting f**ked

so my BDR has gone through a ton of turmoil this year. A majority of his team got laid off this year and took on a new manager in December who ended up getting fired because he was not the right leader.

the head of sales enablement takes over leading the BDR team.... she's never done outbound. she's wearing multiple hats including leading the BDR team so she is not providing coaching, true experience to learn from. she only gives cookie cutter advice and doesn't hammer the phones with him. but is critical about his performance. she doesn't shadow his calls to give him feedback either lol

he's been traveling abroad and still working while on vacation (keep in mind she's taken 26 days off this year). and wouldn't allow him to take his entire vacay off. so she's holding a grudge

he's rotated AEs twice this year and now got put with me at the beginning of June. yes he hasn't necessarily been performing, but I sit in on calls with him and he's definitely struggling. I'm the only one coaching him which he finds helpful.

I get feedback from leadership that I shouldn't be coaching him because I need to be selfish with my time and need to focus on myself. I clearly see he isn't being supported and left to drown so it doesn't make sense as to why I wouldn't support him if he's 33% of my pipeline.

he hasn't booked meetings in the last month at all and now is put on a PIP because of it. The PIP starts in July and he has to book 20 intro calls to keep his job (their quota is 15 a quarter). completely unethical in my eyes and unattainable. it's bull sh*t. not fair.

what does the community think of this situation?

I told him to focus on finding a new job because they're pushing him out. I don't think it's fair to PIP him when he isn't getting coaching or help to improve from someone that doesn't know how to do the role.

thanks y'all ✌🏻

🏋️‍♀️ Leadership

37

52 comments

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oldcloser

Arsonist

13

💀

He's toast, sadly. Tell him you'll be a solid reference when the time comes and do what you can for him if you believe he's got what it takes. No way he goes from 0-20 in 30 days. Another example of management vs leadership. Bah

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

2

Account Executive

Agreed. Already on this with him. I’ve been through this before and I’ve told him to start interviewing rapidly instead of trying to get off the PIP. It won’t be possible for him

antiASKHOLE

Tycoon

8

Bravado's Resident Asshole

Sounds like Miss Piggy needs to calm down. I feel bad for the bdr and I hope they get something better soon.

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

0

Account Executive

Yeah I agree - that’s what it looks like…

Pachacuti

Politicker

6

They call me Daddy, Sales Daddy

First off - Screw sales enablement people. They are the people who can’t do, so they teach. Putting them in charge of anything is a giant 🚩 🚩🚩. And if she’s not providing the BDRs any coaching - wtf is she doing?! Thats literally her job. So screw her too.

You org has bad leadership. And they think churn will fix it. In my previous job I sat with my SDRs and taught them the way of things. Leadership never thinks that’s a good use of time, but it paid off for me, literally.

The reality is your guy is getting fired. He has 30-90 days of paid job search ahead of him and I suggest he use it.

And I would recommend YOU sharpen the resume too because all it takes is 1 bad Q and you’re out too.

Revenue_Rambo

Politicker

1

Director, Revenue Enablement

Don’t put all sales enablement in that bucket. Not going to disagree there are many out there that absolutely sucked at sales and have no business even trying to teach.

This scenario itself is full of bad decisions. Could sales enablement run a BDR team? Maybe. They sure as hell aren’t going to be effective though if they aren’t in the trenches calling with their team, listening to calls, or providing coaching.

This instance is more about a bad people manager and less that person coming from enablement.

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

1

Account Executive

Yeah I agree with you @Revenue_Rambo - a lack of ownership from the sales enablement leader for sure. This person doesn’t want to admit she can’t do shit and pushes it in the person that is in the trenches seeking help

Pachacuti

Politicker

1

They call me Daddy, Sales Daddy

next time you talk to a Sales Enablement person, ask about the last time they hit quota. **crickets**

Revenue_Rambo

Politicker

2

Director, Revenue Enablement

I am in enablement. I hit my quotas as a rep. My teams hit their quotas now.

@Pachacuti I’m not going to argue that your experience hasn’t been different. There are plenty of garbage people in enablement that were completely incompetent sales reps. Hell, I’ve worked with some of those people.

All I’m asking is don’t lump those of us, like me, who run it the right way in with the garbage.

FoodForSales

Politicker

1

AE

I Can't agree with you more!

DataCorrupter

Politicker

1

Account Executive

Agreed on this.

I want to join in on the last point, I would get the resume updated and think about being proactive in the job market. Reason being, that sometimes when your BDR isn't performing, that performance gets tied to you as well. They start to think about you as a non-performing team, not just individuals. In their minds, you're not listening, you're giving feedback to the BDR when they think you should spend that time on accounts. Is that fair? No, they just gave you an underperforming BDR and are expecting you do also meet your number somehow, like you don't have an underperforming BDR tied to you... But alas, that's just the way it is. Judging from what you've said so far, they seem like these type of "leaders."

TLDR; be cautious about the stink rubbing off on you, be prepared if it does.

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

0

Account Executive

Yeah I wish I could leave watching this unfold! There is a VP on the revenue team that is a pretty big LinkedIn influencer who isn’t doing shit about it and is allowing this

These LinkedIn influencers aren’t as great as they make themselves out to be with the amount of empathy they try to promote. It’s pathetic and kind of why I don’t believe in the majority of them

0

Enterprise Account Executive

Agree on the sharpen the resume. Something not right at that company

CPTAmerica

Opinionated

6

President/CRO

Good for you trying to help a jr rep out!

It's tough to say what is "fair" or not. Would it be considered fair if they simply let this BDR go for lack of performance? Sounds like they certainly could have gone that route. Maybe some of the lack of results were out of your BDR's control but those are the rules of the game we play. Sounds like a change of scenery might be best for them anyway.

The vacation drama is a different story. It's absurd how some leaders try and control time off. There is enough research out there showing how much more productive employees are when given the chance to take time off.

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

1

Account Executive

Agreed with everything you say, my friend

pirate

Big Shot

5

🦜☠️ Account Executive

Something was not working and the post for me showed up as PIP - My BDR is getting fucked. That's it! Nothing else.

I was like wow that's some PIP LOL. Best ignore this.

I think you are being kind. I think that is one of my mottos in life. To be kind. I think it is also good advice that you told them to get out and look for something new. Honest

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

2

Account Executive

Hahaha yeah I forgot to add my post 😂 yep coaching him through it. This shit is so dumb

pirate

Big Shot

2

🦜☠️ Account Executive

I thought well that's enough of war room for me today 🤣

Sounds like an awful situation. You're being great

Revenue_Rambo

Politicker

4

Director, Revenue Enablement

PIP target is completely unobtainable. So many people will be taking advantage of a long vacation week to start July that he’ll be lucky to get anyone to even answer the phone in the first 2 weeks.

You’re doing the right thing trying to help out your BDR, but if you invest more time you’ll sink your own ship.

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

0

Account Executive

Agreed not giving so much time

Yeah holiday month. This must’ve been planned from the get go. Which is dumb, but true. They’ve been mapping this. It’s pathetic

coletrain

Politicker

3

Account Executive

Book 20 intro calls by when? It's clear they're trying to push him out.

Have him acknowledge that most got laid off and they kept him around to smooth a transition towards a more AE prospecting heavy sales floor.

For you: get ready to make a lot more OB dials

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

1

Account Executive

What’s also interesting is they’re still hiring more SDRs. Doesn’t make sense lol

The BdR role sucks here if you want to move up. They aren’t creating a path forward for promotions. It’s a shitty setup

coletrain

Politicker

0

Account Executive

Ahh, it's a churn and burn. They will always be hiring xDRs

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

0

Account Executive

Yep - for sure. It’s fucking annoying. I wish I could leave lol but I’ve Job hopped too many times where I can’t now. I haven’t stayed somewhere over two years since 2019

Diablo

Politicker

3

Sr. AE

This is honestly brutal. There is no match to it based on the past quota. I am sure he’s already demotivated and started the search process. All the best to him!

HappyGilmore

Politicker

3

Account Executive

That's a brutal situation. Kudos to you working with him and trying to help him out. No doubt you've taught him more in 5 minutes than that sales enablement manager ever will.

Hopefully he is able to land a new job ASAP, one that has a legitimate SDR manager who can support him.

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

2

Account Executive

Agreed - I’ve even referred so many good SDR managers and they aren’t taking them. Actual legends. It’s pretty sad if you ask me

Just funny to watch. Bull shit is happening at 99% of orgs. Where are the real leaders at?

HappyGilmore

Politicker

0

Account Executive

Real leaders are incredibly hard to find nowadays

SandlerFan

Good Citizen

3

Account Executive

Pip = quiet laying off

CuriousFox

WR Officer

3

🦊

Enable deez

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

0

Account Executive

RT

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

2

Account Executive

@coletrain - by end of July 😂 forgot to add that

coletrain

Politicker

1

Account Executive

One month PIP, yeah that's not it.

50 applications a week at minimum in this paid interview process is my recommendation for your Robin the Frog if money is a bit tighter

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

0

Account Executive

Lmao pieces of shit, right? It’s insane

2

SaaS sales expert

My best advice is to look for a better company. I worked for many start ups, and now run my own sales development company. This is a red flag and is a precursor to more problems.

jadedsdr

2

Senior Enterprise SDR

This sounds like my situation to a T. My search already started. Then my boss hasnt kept anyone on her team longer than 10 months. Clearly her leadership is the problem

lajefa

Good Citizen

1

Enterprise Account Executive

Is there EVER a fair PIP? Not in this climate. They are looking for reasons to let people go. Tell your guy and all your team to look out for themselves and start looking. No matter HOW management tries to spin the PIP story, it's never because they want you to succeed.

Heed this advice or be sorry later.

KermitdaFrog

Opinionated

0

Account Executive

Hahaha trust me I’ve been at a ton of these blue chip SaaS companies. This is a company Pre-Series D…. And still happens. It’s insane

My average job tenure is like 13 months…. I’ve been here for 7…. Think I even have a chance to switch jobs? Most likely not :/ I’d assume

BTQ

Politicker

1

Account Manager

Dude that's fucked he had to work while abroad? While she took 26 days off and it's not Q3.

Poor lad glad he has 90 days of paid job search plus sevy

CRAG112

Valued Contributor

1

Account Executive

Help him get a new role.
Go on his Linkedin and write a personal recommendation. Be extremely specific that you were his personal AE and how he worked with you.
Mention every single thing about this person being coachable and etc.
Shine a major light on him.

Do that immediately if not already done.

Also, you could write this guy direct for a BDR role. I saw him post on the RevGenius board. Starting at 60K.
[email protected]

Justatitle

Big Shot

1

Account Executive

They're firing him and giving him til the end of July to find a new role, that's the reality

dadasaurus

Opinionated

1

Enterprise Account Executive

A PIP is not intended to be achievable and clearly they want to get rid of this employee. In fact they’ve told you as much and given you a warning for your own position with that “you need to be selfish…” comment. So first thing is, I wouldn’t be aligning with that BDR - it’s politically bad because they’ve told you that.

I’ve PIPed lots of employees in my own business as well as in corporate environments, and in all my years Ive only sen one rep ever survive one. The expectations are setup for failure; the whole idea is to create a paper trail and avoid a wrongful dismissal suit.

I need to add one comment, in the company’s defense, and that is that this BDR is clearly not able to do the work. You said it yourself - he/she is struggling badly. And that person has obviously been in the role for a while already. So the BDR should definitely look for a new role.

Good luck to you both - it’s getting to be a bloodbath out there!

TheDude

Politicker

1

Partnerships Lead

This sounds like a toxic culture. If feedback isn't happening and you're being chastened for helping another human (let's not forget, we're people first, then employees), I would start questioning the values of this org. I was reading about PIPs yesterday (source link below) and a few things stuck out that I'd like to share:
-Employers use PIPs to gaslight employees they want to terminate.
- PIPs are often based on metrics the employee has never been asked to meet.

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7080175588459606016?updateEntityUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afs_feedUpdate%3A%28V2%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7080175588459606016%29

jeisenbrei

Personal Narrative

1

VP of Sales

Run

Maximas

Tycoon

0

Senior Sales Executive

Nope, Not Fair at all!
Definitely agree, he deserves a better place where he can find the required support!

salesboi22

Politicker

0

Head of Growth

I firmly believe SDRs getting trained but their AEs is the best way to do it. Bummer they’re telling you but to train him at all. Sounds to me like they want him gone. Also if he’s booked zero meetings that is really bad, so maybe they have a point.

Valueselling

Member

0

Managing Director

I have both been PiP´d and set PIP´s for employees. Regardless the PIP I wrote, I was certain what they would not be able to achieve it

I suggest to face the situation from an rational and not emotional way.

Companies don't like to get explanations on why you are not going to make it but rather what do you need to achieve it

I suggest the employee asks for weekly follow up callas with the manager, discussing the results, discussing what has been done right and what wrong and asking for advice of what other rep you can find a a reference to help you improve ( I am certain that he can improve. Otherwise he would not be Piped ). Ask for resources .

This way, he is asking the manager to be co-responsible of the success or failure, because the employee is asking for help, references, guidelines and weekly reviews to ask for advices

If the request is denied, it is a no brainer. Look for a new job

lieselfuel

Member

0

Regional Vice President

To be honest, you’re not wrong. The BDR model stinks in general. But, he will likely be better off elsewhere based on everything you said

0

Director of sales

Bad management, awful for him. Since we can’t change the situation it is time for him to seek outside coaching, read book, no one taught me until I landed at huge companies but by that time I was maybe 80-90% there but I used YT, followed influencers, worked harder than anyone else, drank the company Koolaid, turned off any distractions or negative thoughts

CKamapguy

Fire Starter

0

Sales Director

The biggest issue I see here is that you told the guy with the PIP that they were just trying to fire him. It is 100% true. However, in desperation that guy would or could tell HR, leadership or the unemployment office...or a lawyer that you said that and then you are called on the carpet for some BS. PIPs are total bull$hit. I am a disabled veteran and they have been used against me just to fire me...

ThatNewAE

Big Shot

0

Account Executive - Mid enterprise

Looks like sales enablement teams never did anything right anywhere. Sorry, no offence.

bigfella

Tycoon

-3

AE (Account Executive)

How about don’t go on vacation if you’re worried about your performance?

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