Advice : How to address unrealistic expectations with Sales Manager...

Hi All,


Not sure if this is the best way to get visibility, but I need some advice. I work for a fairly large startup as a BDR/SDR hybrid. My sales manager wants us to all hit 20 new companies a day with at least 40 new contacts - I am emphasizing that this is NEW outreach. We are also expected to do 24 hr follow-ups, 3day follow-ups, and 2-week follow-ups. Booking quota is 2 meetings a day per week


Needless to say, it is really tough to do quality outreach (especially since it's very manual - sleuthing on socials, sites, etc). On top of it, I am a hybrid, which means I book calls, manage pipelines, present / negotiate on calls, and try to close...Leadership is calling for quality only, Asking us to focus on 5K+ MRR only, and to stay away from small fries...harder to do without a targeted approach and process!


I AM STRUGGLING to keep up with the 20 new companies & 40 Contacts. Most days I am somewhere around 15 companies and 35 contacts. When I have a ton of meetings, its more like 10 companies, and 20 contacts. Lately, Nov/Dec I cannot hit the 2 meetings per day.


My sales manager has really been grilling me. I was looking in the mirror to see what I was doing wrong, it's been 7mo+. I went ahead and looked at my colleague's outreach (who on paper is killing it) and I am really shocked - looks like others are just inputting a ton of contacts but are not necessarily doing outreach to all. In fact, I spot-checked and they actually contacted less than half! Other more senior colleagues have tools like Zoominfo and add 100+ contacts at a time.


I normally couldn't give a crap about what others do to get by, but my manager is HOUNDING me because I am not keeping up in comparison! I don't know what to do. I have tried expressing how hard it is for ME to manage all on my plate, I have explained my process and asked for feedback. The sum up the answer from my manager: "I don't know what you are doing bc I don't watch you all day but try ABC, XYZ, 123" - basically suggesting I try everything in the kitchen sink.


The gist is my manager only wants results, but also wants me to keep up with these unrealistic outreach numbers, all while making me feel like I am a failure.


If he brings it up again and compares my outreach to others, do I bring this up? If yes, how? I run it through my head and it always sounds like I am pointing a finger - and I hate that.

๐Ÿง  Advice
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19
Sunbunny31
Politicker
7
Sr Sales Executive ๐Ÿฐ
Sounds like a horrible case of incentivizing the wrong behavior (bulk uploads of whatever contacts is a strategy to avoid management grilling?) while simultaneously not having any grasp on the unattainable math. Result: database full of garbage contacts and inaccurate reporting, and a low close rate because who can keep up with all of this? I'm sorry. This is not your doing, and I'm sorry it's stressful. I'd be stressed too if management didn't see the extreme problems with their bs numbers.
TennisandSales
Politicker
3
Head Of Sales
damn this is fucking bonkers.
1. sounds like your manager is an ass
2. sounds like the expectations are so stupid.

i think you have a few options:
A. start doing what everyone else is doing. just start adding shit contacts and make sure you are keeping track of the quality ones to hit numbers.
B. start tracking your time so you can share how much time you are spending on each activity (sitting on calls, dialing, running meeting, ect) then present it to the boss and ask what problems he sees with it.
c. have you tried talking to your coworkers about this?
D. you can quit because this is a losing battle for sure my friend.
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
1
Director of BD
Think I will start doing A and B

C. Small team of 5 (with the Sales Manager). We have talked about it, but everyone is super quiet to say anything. One actually said its fine bc XYZ will happen and we will be floating in cash.

D. Definitely considering it...but I have never been a quitter over something like this.

The kicker here is the Sales Manager has yet to set up the "rotation of untouched companies/contacts" so there are companies I am finding during my prospecting, only to find that someone "reached out" 3-12 months ago - so I cant touch it!
TennisandSales
Politicker
4
Head Of Sales
leaving a situation that is not setting you up for success does not make you a quitter. it means you know what you value and want to find a company that supports that.

but i think picking A and B are solid options haha
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
1
Director of BD
Yes. Will do A&B while looking at moving. Maybe things will improve in the meantime, maybe Iโ€™ll find something better. I just want to have fun and sell. Idk why things have to be so insane. Haha
Devilock
3
Senior Sales Executive
Your manager seems like a dissociated douchebag; one of those managers who likely fell into the role by luck and who hasnโ€™t actually had to put in the same amount of work expected from you.

Goals are unrealistic, which is characterized by the gaming of the system in Outreach as you mentioned.

Had your manager actually delved into the data you cited, it would be obvious that others on the team are just playing him/her.

Iโ€™d polish that resume and get it out. There are better places to work than at the sweatshop where youโ€™re currently doing the desktop deathmarch on the daily.

Good luck out there!
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
0
Director of BD
Certainly am...its sad, because the technology and developers here are talented. Leadership is only looking on "paper" results and don't do enough digging into how my dept is actually run. Either that or they don't care.
Devilock
0
Senior Sales Executive
Unfortunately, your manager seems to be aligned with the Peter Principle: people will rise up to their own levels of self-ineptitude.
SADNESSLieutenant
Politicker
2
Officer of โ™ฅ๏ธ
how are you supposed to reach out to 40 new people each day and follow up every 24 hours when in one week that would be 200 people you're reaching out too every day and 400 people in 2 weeks and 80 accounts etc.

Why do they want so many meetings?

Is the close ratio low?

Are you targeting the right persona?

Are they the DM?

Is the the restaurant industry?

Fuck this place.
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
2
Director of BD
I run the math in my head every damn day....makes no sense. Nobody questions it!

Nobody is caught up on the "tasking" - (the follow-ups).

Iam the only one who brought it up, and everyone acts like I said something offensive when I bring it up on calls...or they will say that they were able to do it! Which is BS bc they obviously have not...its all on Hubspot.

the close ratio is prob like 13% but it's highly inaccurate and the pipeline of deals is cooked.

We are targeting the right persona but often these are dead. I see my team just doing the outreach to keep up with performance numbers on paper.

Its tech...I have been in sales for the majority of my career, and for the first time ever I am riddled with anxiety.
SADNESSLieutenant
Politicker
0
Officer of โ™ฅ๏ธ
that close ratio is low, honestly fuck that place and bring it up to your manager what your telling us. That's just dumb.
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
0
Director of BD
I have been doing some job seeking but have to make this work until I can make a move. I will definitely bring it up if I get another hand-slap again.
SaasSlingin
Politicker
1
Sr AE
This doesnโ€™t sound healthy or conducive to your success. Defenitely have a chat with your manager around your concerns and approach it practically.
Iโ€™d try to learn if theyโ€™re grilling others on your team and also mimic the top performer, whether they hit those kpis or not
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
0
Director of BD
If I mimic the top performer I would be adding really crappy deals to my high probability pipeline off a whim, and adding crappy prospecting to my flow.

My "manager" is essentially the Sales Manager/AE. He hope around into all our meetings pitching. He silos us from any personal performance/feedback calls. But I will try to be practical and bring the issues to him when appropriate.

It's definitely not healthy. Glad to know I am not the only one seeing things this way.
SaasSlingin
Politicker
0
Sr AE
Ahh player/coach. I was one and surrounded by em .. dontโ€™t typically make for the best managers.
Anyway, while it sounds like this, obviously only hearing your version of the story. Best of luck bringin it up thoughb
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
0
Director of BD
yea, I have been openly asking "what do you think I am doing wrong"

Tons of meetings, but barely any close...its like we are running in circles.
Pachacuti
Politicker
1
They call me Daddy, Sales Daddy
That seems excessive. Do they automate all this outreach? I don't see how you (or anyone) and personalize that quantity of outreach. And it seems like your counterparts have figured out the shortcut for faking it till you make it.
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
1
Director of BD
trying to make an argument for it...The sales manager has been talking about "rotating leads" for the past 6 mos. Also, 3 of the 5 on the team have Zoominfo but I do not.
Pachacuti
Politicker
1
They call me Daddy, Sales Daddy
The haves vs not haves is a real issue. You need to make a point that you need it too as a business tool.
RelationshipMaker
Opinionated
1
Head of Sales
This is wrong on so many levels.

Your manager sounds like a dick.

1) Do what the others are doing, (slowly ramp it up to make it look like you're doing what your boss told you to do).
2) You already sound like you know what to do, follow your instinct.
3) Anxiety is now what asbestos was 40 years ago. It's very unhealthy.
Diablo
Politicker
0
Sr. AE
First of all they want bigger sharks plus so many unique outreach. Account based targeting is quite strategic and this is not going to help them in long run.

are your other colleagues handling the entire sales cycle like you or doing just a part of it? Did you try to replicate and see if you are getting similar results?
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
0
Director of BD
At one point I threw it against the wall too! Had tons of meetings, but barely anything closed. The same results my whole team has. Tons of meetings, but hardly anything closing...The only deal rev we really see are these larger "integration deals" that are cut off to the sales manager to run with the most Sr AE.
BlueJays2591
Politicker
0
Federal Business Dev Director
If I'm understanding you correctly, you need 2 meetings booked every day?
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
0
Director of BD
2 meetings a day, 20 new companies, and 40 contacts (2 contacts touched per company min).
Kosta_Konfucius
Politicker
0
Sales Rep
Here is an old of mine when asking about unrealistic expectation hope this helps

https://bravado.co/war-room/posts/sales-manager-increasing-for-forecast-4x
aintafraidofnoghost
Fire Starter
0
Sales Manager
I was going to say just take a fully automated sequence approach to assuage the โ€œhigh touchโ€ expectation and stay off the โ€œnaughty listโ€, while you do your real work and actually get results, but then saw you say itโ€™s a team of five. Your Sales Manager isnโ€™t doing their job if they arenโ€™t listening, understanding, and coaching. Last year I had 17 direct reports at one point and was still in charge of hiring more people, while onboarding and supporting all of my direct reports before we instituted a Team Lead structure, and I shadowed people, spent time reviewing calls they flagged, giving tips, etc. Thatโ€™s your managerโ€™s job and what they signed up for. As a Sales Manager, I would want you to bring up the data behind everyone else just fudging numbers to hit the KPIs and show that theyโ€™re unrealistic, so I could challenge my Senior Leaders.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you might not be in a healthy role/relationship, so I would perhaps fudge the numbers to follow suit, so your Manager can be โ€œsatisfiedโ€, try to hone your craft and get some meaningful rev/commissions, and find your next career step.
Mentor
0
Founder
Hold up and reevaluate your position, sales manager snd objectives. Where does the selling take place?
sounds like your sales manager is actually a data entry manager and you are a data entry clerk. How do you earn your salary and commission if you are doing web searching for companies and contacts all day? You or the. Onpany can easily buy a list for this and get data entry clerks to fill their database. If thatโ€™s what h or she wants you can certainly provide that with little or no sratrwll bu how are the both of you going to reach your sales quotas?
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
0
Director of BD
I have brought this up as the new SDR/AE hybrid months ago and got the whole song and dance about data. More net new companies added = more meetings = more deals = more close.

But what is hilarious and sad is our conversion on closes is horrendous. Its skewed but between the lines terrible.

Heโ€™s literally asked us in group meetings and I have also brought this up. โ€œWhy are deals not closing ?โ€

Sales manager: โ€œWow, thanks this is a great perspective. I want us to think about what [redacted] just saidโ€

Very next meetingโ€ฆ

Sales manager: โ€œguys the data says more more moreโ€ And itโ€™s becoming this thing where Iโ€™m the only one openly saying anything and asserting myself. So I now just shut up. Lol
Mentor
0
Founder
Deals are not closing because the prospects arenโ€™t seeing the value for the price in the offering. BOOM. Simple as that. Thatโ€™s where selling comes in to play.
EspressoMaxi
Valued Contributor
0
Director of BD
yes, and thats because we cant focus on quality lead generation when we are pumping 20 companies/40 contacts a day. its just laughable.
Mentor
0
Founder
The company should be providing YOU Qualified Warm leads so you can SELL and close Them.
whatsquota
0
Enterprise AE
Pretty straight forward mate. Do what everyone else is doing, game the system and buy yourself a few extra months, a year in a BDR role with some level of success does buy you some street cred and you can take your time to find the right place for you.

OR, you can gather the data, present it to your manager and the likely outcome is nothing changes but youโ€™ve pissed off your coworkers because in a roundabout way you uncovered them.

Welcome to tech sales! Donโ€™t worry about the tech and the devs. Itโ€™s about finding good tech, a good team and a solid manager. Itโ€™s about your success. Ever see the movie, company man? Donโ€™t be that guy. Territory, Talent, Timing those things line up youโ€™re golden. Good luck!
Jessie26
0
accountant
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